Legislature(2007 - 2008)Anch LIO Conf Rm

05/27/2008 11:00 AM Senate JUDICIARY


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11:03:42 AM Start
11:04:15 AM Department of Corrections - Status Hearing
03:53:49 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ Department of Corrections - Status TELECONFERENCED
Hearing
-- Testimony <Invitation Only> --
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
              SENATE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                         ANCHORAGE LIO                                                                                        
                          May 27, 2008                                                                                          
                           11:03 a.m.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hollis French, Chair                                                                                                    
Senator Bill Wielechowski                                                                                                       
Senator Gene Therriault                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator Charlie Huggins, Vice Chair                                                                                             
Senator Lesil McGuire                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bettye Davis                                                                                                            
Representative John Coghill                                                                                                     
Representative Andrea Doll                                                                                                      
Representative Jay Ramras                                                                                                       
Representative Bill Stoltze                                                                                                     
Representative Mike Chenault                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Department of Corrections - Status Hearing                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
No previous action to record.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
BRAD WILSON, Business Manager                                                                                                   
Alaska Correctional Officers Association (ACOA)                                                                                 
Anchorage, AK                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided union perspective at the DOC                                                                    
status hearing.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
TODD GODFREY, Corrections Officer                                                                                               
Anvil Mountain                                                                                                                  
Nome, AK                                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided corrections officer perspective at                                                              
the DOC status hearing.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
DENNIS HANSON, Corrections Officer                                                                                              
Spring Creek                                                                                                                    
Seward, AK                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided corrections officer perspective at                                                              
the DOC status hearing.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
DON MACOMBER, laid off Corrections Officer III                                                                                  
Spring Creek                                                                                                                    
Seward, AK                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided perspective at the DOC status                                                                   
hearing.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
JOE SCHMIDT, Commissioner                                                                                                       
Department of Corrections (DOC)                                                                                                 
Juneau, AK                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified at the DOC status hearing.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BRYAN BRANDENBURG, Deputy Director                                                                                              
Division of Institutions                                                                                                        
Department of Corrections,                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified at the DOC status hearing.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DIANNE KIESEL                                                                                                                   
Deputy Director                                                                                                                 
Division of Personnel & Labor Relations                                                                                         
Department of Administration                                                                                                    
Juneau, AK                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified at the DOC status hearing.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DWAYNE PEEPLES, Deputy Commissioner                                                                                             
Department of Corrections                                                                                                       
Juneau, AK                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified at the DOC status hearing.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DOCTOR JOE MCLAUGHLIN, Acting Chief                                                                                             
Section of Epidemiology                                                                                                         
Division of Public Health, Department of Health and Social                                                                      
Services                                                                                                                        
Anchorage, AK                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided information about MRSA at the DOC                                                               
status hearing.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
JOHN BODICK, Assistant Attorney General                                                                                         
Criminal Division                                                                                                               
Department of Law                                                                                                               
Anchorage, AK                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT:   Explained the Cleary litigation  at the DOC                                                             
status hearing.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SAM EDWARDS, Deputy Commissioner                                                                                                
Department of Corrections                                                                                                       
Anchorage, AK                                                                                                                   
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Provided  information  at  the DOC  status                                                             
hearing.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  HOLLIS   FRENCH  called  the  Senate   Judiciary  Standing                                                             
Committee meeting  to order at  11:03:42 AM. Present at  the call                                                             
to  order  were  Senators French,  Wielechowski,  Therriault  and                                                               
Representatives Holmes and Doll.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
          ^DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS - STATUS HEARING                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
11:04:15 AM                                                                                                                   
CHAIR  FRENCH announced  that the  purpose of  the hearing  is to                                                               
look  into  recent  allegations of  problems  within  the  prison                                                               
system,   including   overcrowding    and   the   prevalence   of                                                               
Methicillin-resistant   Staphylococcus   aureus  (MRSA).   Unlike                                                               
complaints  that have  been  brought in  the  past by  prisoners,                                                               
these  complaints  come  from correction  officers,  which  is  a                                                               
little different and worthy of legislative attention.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  FRENCH  relayed  that  legislators  took  a  tour  of  the                                                               
Anchorage  correctional complex  this  morning.  They spoke  with                                                               
correction  officers   and  were   able  to  see   firsthand  the                                                               
overcrowding. He noted  that MRSA isn't as easy to  detect so the                                                               
committee  will rely  on folks  who work  inside the  facility to                                                               
tell  about that.  This hearing  is an  opportunity to  flesh out                                                               
these issues  rather than  relying on a  trial by  press release.                                                               
The  people  who have  complaints  will  have an  opportunity  to                                                               
present them and the commissioner and  his people will be able to                                                               
present  their  side  of  the story.  This  afternoon  the  state                                                               
epidemiologist  will talk  about  MRSA, the  state attorney  will                                                               
talk about prisoner  litigation and some of the  problems that it                                                               
can lead to. Also, former  Commissioner Mark Antrim will give his                                                               
perspective on  the prison issue.  Commissioner Joe  Schmidt will                                                               
have  an  opportunity at  the  end  of  the  day to  wrap-up  the                                                               
discussion and rebut anything he thinks necessary.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
11:05:28 AM                                                                                                                   
BRAD  WILSON,  Business  Manager,  Alaska  Correctional  Officers                                                               
Association  (ACOA),  thanked  the committee  for  listening  and                                                               
convening the hearing.  He said he would provide  an overview and                                                               
then several correction officers  would discuss their experiences                                                               
and concerns.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
11:08:13 AM                                                                                                                   
CHAIR FRENCH noted that 50-60 correction officers were present.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR.  WILSON referred  to handouts  he had  provided including:  a                                                               
pamphlet on  MRSA, two  PowerPoint presentations  on overcrowding                                                               
that  are  available  on  disc  or by  email,  the  final  Cleary                                                               
decision  settlement, and  the  compliance  monitor's report.  He                                                               
added  that  Cleary  is  a  lawsuit filed  by  inmates  that  was                                                               
resolved in  1991 or 1992. Most  of the time today  will be spent                                                               
discussing  the   legislative  hearing  document   that  includes                                                               
graphs.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
11:11:19 AM                                                                                                                   
MR.  WILSON  said  the  final  item that  will  be  discussed  is                                                               
statewide minimums. He noted that  behind each document are memos                                                               
from each institution  outlining the minimums over  the last year                                                               
and  how they  may  or  may not  have  changed. Martin  Crowley's                                                               
institution  was used  for demonstration  purposes,  he said.  He                                                               
emphasized  that the  documentation is  unofficial and  is to  be                                                               
used for the audit and to elicit discussion.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILSON  thanked legislators for  announcing the  hearings and                                                               
initiating  the audit.  That in  itself has  resulted in  change:                                                               
MRSA  is   being  tracked,   communication  is   better,  federal                                                               
mediation has  been offered, and probation  officers have already                                                               
had three  things change  for the better  in the  workplace. Most                                                               
importantly,  prior  to  the audit  there  was  discussion  about                                                               
cutting overtime  or not calling  it overtime after July  1. This                                                               
was a big  concern and it's understood that that  won't happen on                                                               
July 1. We're  glad that transparency in government  is more than                                                               
a campaign slogan, he said.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
11:15:36 AM                                                                                                                   
MR. WILSON  said that  the discussion would  focus on  the public                                                               
safety issues  of MRSA and  staffing. He  held up a  booklet that                                                               
was sent to  the governor and said it highlights  the issues that                                                               
factored  into  the 96  percent  [no  confidence] vote  including                                                               
morale. That  won't be  discussed, but at  least you're  aware of                                                               
it, he  said. Referring to  section 1 of the  legislative hearing                                                               
book, he said  that was delivered to the governor  with a request                                                               
for an investigation.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
11:17:21 AM                                                                                                                   
MR. WILSON referred  to press reports about MRSA  being a massive                                                               
epidemic with  over 200 cases in  the last two years.  "We didn't                                                               
say that,  but the  fact that  we didn't say  that does  not mean                                                               
that we  are taking anything  away from officers or  anybody else                                                               
who did  say it,"  he said.  But according  to the  definition of                                                               
"epidemic"   and   considering   recent  statements   by   health                                                               
officials,  it would  qualify, he  said. It's  reasonable to  say                                                               
that in  the last  several years  there have  been more  than 200                                                               
cases of MRSA.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
11:19:03 AM                                                                                                                   
CHAIR FRENCH  noted that  Mr. Spengler  issued a  research report                                                               
that  quotes Brad  Wilson, business  manager of  ACOA, as  saying                                                               
that  tracking  MRSA incidents  among  inmates  and staff  is  of                                                               
paramount importance  and that the  incidence of MRSA  is rampant                                                               
among prisoners and correctional officers across the state.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILSON recalled speaking with  a gentleman who wanted to talk                                                               
to people who had information on  MRSA. He told him that MRSA was                                                               
a very serious  concern and there were MRSA cases,  but he didn't                                                               
use the word rampant. "I set him  up with … Corrections USA and …                                                               
CCPOA."                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH  said he was just  asking if he recalled  talking to                                                               
Mr. Spengler.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  WILSON  acknowledged  that  he   may  have  spoken  to  him.                                                               
Certainly MRSA is on an  extreme increase and should be curtailed                                                               
using  the best  policies from  around the  country, he  said. We                                                               
want to  do everything possible  to keep  it from getting  to the                                                               
inmates and officers.  The problem is how to  get the information                                                               
out without  giving out confidential information.  He highlighted                                                               
that someone  spoke to the  press and was disciplined  for giving                                                               
out confidential  information. That  person was  also disciplined                                                               
for  being dishonest  because he  said he  thinks the  problem is                                                               
increasing. "If  you don't track it,  how do you know  he's being                                                               
dishonest when he  says he thinks there's a  serious problem?" he                                                               
questioned.  That  put  fear  into the  rest  of  the  correction                                                               
officers, he added.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
He said  we understand that new  policies are being put  in place                                                               
since the hearing and audit were announced.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
11:23:40 AM                                                                                                                   
MR. WILSON referenced an article  about MRSA and related lawsuits                                                               
contained in  the legislative hearing  book and commented  on the                                                               
similarities between those  cases and how MRSA  got started here.                                                               
The infections  were classified  as spider  bites and  there were                                                               
tracking  issues, all  of which  resulted in  lawsuits. We  think                                                               
MRSA  is not  only  something  that is  a  major  concern to  our                                                               
people, it  could be a  liability situation, he said.  One report                                                               
said that the  extra cost of doing extra cleaning  actually was a                                                               
cost saving.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH said  he believes the committee will  hear that MRSA                                                               
can  be  compared to  the  common  cold.  Many people  carry  the                                                               
infection or germs,  but most of the  time a cold goes  away in a                                                               
week. Sometimes  a cold develops  into pneumonia. You  and others                                                               
may  want  to  describe  how  it's  possible  to  keep  track  of                                                               
something that's as common as the  common cold and how much money                                                               
should be spent doing that, he said.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR.  WILSON  responded that  he  thinks  that it's  important  to                                                               
culture the  boil to determine what  it is for sure  and then the                                                               
person should be isolated to  protect others. "I would argue that                                                               
MRSA is a serious situation and  is something that can be managed                                                               
more  appropriately than  was done  in  Pennsylvania, which  cost                                                               
them lots  of money." The  article also talks about  training and                                                               
in the last two weeks that has started, he said.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  WILSON described  the injury  relief  account and  explained                                                               
that if  someone has  a workplace injury  they are  covered under                                                               
that account.  There's $500,000  in that  account, but  the state                                                               
stopped covering people with MRSA,  saying it was like the common                                                               
cold and it wasn't clear where  it came from. That was hurtful to                                                               
workers,  he said.  Also, workers'  compensation is  dragging its                                                               
feet and the reason for that needs to be investigated.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
11:27:56 AM                                                                                                                   
TODD GODFREY,  Correctional Officer, Anvil Mountain,  said he was                                                               
infected with MRSA  in December. The doctor said  he assumed that                                                               
it was  MRSA because of where  he works, but he  couldn't confirm                                                               
that  without a  swab test.  He  was given  antibiotics and  pain                                                               
medication. By  the next day  the infection had spread.  MRSA was                                                               
confirmed on  his third trip to  the hospital and he  was told to                                                               
stay home  from work  and limit  contact with others  for 4  to 5                                                               
days. He followed the instructions and  about 12 to 13 days after                                                               
his initial trip  to the hospital he was okay.  It was a painful,                                                               
disgusting and  embarrassing experience.  He believes he  got the                                                               
infection  at  the institution  because  of  the environment  and                                                               
circumstances he works  under. Anvil Mountain is  the main intake                                                               
facility  for the  Nome/Kotzebue  region and  many  of the  folks                                                               
coming  in don't  have  routine access  to  washers, driers,  and                                                               
showers. When these  folks come in, he handles them  up close and                                                               
personal. That  includes pat  searches, strip  searches, clothing                                                               
searches, and  sometimes he's more hands-on  depending on whether                                                               
they're combative, assaultive,  intoxicated, or suicidal. Because                                                               
of location and  weather everyone is confined indoors for  6 to 7                                                               
months at a  time. Also, the inmate capacity is  exceeded much of                                                               
the time.  Added together  he thinks  it's reasonable  to believe                                                               
that he was infected at the institution.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. GODFREY  said he  filed a  workers' compensation  claim about                                                               
six months  ago and has  yet to get  a decision. In  the meantime                                                               
his  insurance company  has had  to pay  and he  has paid  the 20                                                               
percent co-pay  out of  pocket. He  missed 5 days  of work  so he                                                               
applied  for  injury leave.  That  was  denied  so 60  hours  was                                                               
subtracted from his personal bank of leave.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
11:34:12 AM                                                                                                                   
MR.  GODFREY read  several  memos from  the  injury leave  public                                                               
protection group. The  first says that Dianne  Kiesel and Garland                                                               
Armstrong made the  decision not to approve his  injury leave for                                                               
the MRSA staph infection since  it can be contracted anywhere and                                                               
there was  not a  clear outbreak in  the institution.  The second                                                               
email from the  same group denied the injury leave  due to a lack                                                               
of evidence  that he contracted  MRSA at the  institution. That's                                                               
in spite of  the fact that medical staff has  said that there has                                                               
been  MRSA  in the  facility  and  he  has  seen and  handed  out                                                               
medication to inmates  with infections that were  similar to his.                                                               
Also,  he's  read  studies  indicating  that  MRSA  can  live  on                                                               
surfaces,  bedding,  and  linens  for days,  weeks,  and  perhaps                                                               
months depending  on the  surface and  the temperature.  When all                                                               
the factors  are considered, it's  reasonable for him  to believe                                                               
that  he was  infected  at  the institution.  He  would like  the                                                               
department  to   support  him  and   he  respectfully   asks  the                                                               
commissioner and  director to reconsider  his case.  "There needs                                                               
to  be better  communication,  a little  understanding, a  little                                                               
support on the subject," he said.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
He  said he  likes to  think that  he works  at one  of the  best                                                               
facilities  in the  state. It's  known to  be well-run  and well-                                                               
maintained, and the inmates work hard to keep it clean.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH asked how many inmates are at Anvil Mountain.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. GODFREY  replied when  he left late  yesterday the  count was                                                               
116. He continued  to say that even though the  facility is among                                                               
the best, the safety features are  not 100 percent fail proof. He                                                               
realizes  that sometimes  things  happen and  he believes  that's                                                               
what occurred in  his case. When something does  happen he'd like                                                               
the department  to acknowledge  it and  offer support.  "I'd like                                                               
some accountability instead of denial," he said.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
11:39:03 AM                                                                                                                   
REPRESENTATIVE DOLL  asked how many  of the inmates  have medical                                                               
examinations.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. GODFREY  explained that it  depends on length of  stay. Every                                                               
person that enters  the prison population is  cleared by medical,                                                               
he said.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOLL asked what "cleared by medical" means.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. GODFREY replied it means they talk with a nurse.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOLL asked if there's an actual examination.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. GODFREY  said for the  most part  it's questions, but  if the                                                               
inmate says there's something wrong then they're examined.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOLL said she interprets  that to mean there isn't                                                               
otherwise an exam.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. GODFREY deferred to the  department to discuss inmate medical                                                               
examinations.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH,  in response  to a  request by  Senator Therriault,                                                               
said the memos  that were referenced would be  distributed to the                                                               
committee members.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
11:40:24 AM                                                                                                                   
DENNIS HANSON, Corrections Officer,  Spring Creek, stated that he                                                               
is the  officer who  was suspended  for talking  to the  press. A                                                               
copy  of his  suspension  letter is  in  the legislative  hearing                                                               
book. He  relayed that he contracted  MRSA in July 2006  while he                                                               
was working  at Spring  Creek and  the Department  of Corrections                                                               
accepted  responsibility. He  noted that  the particulars  of his                                                               
case are located  under tab 12 in the binder.  He understands the                                                               
department now is saying he  was suspended for being dishonest or                                                               
lying,  but the  case file  provided  says he  was suspended  for                                                               
talking to  the press  without permission. It  also says  that he                                                               
provided  incorrect  information,  but  what he  relayed  to  the                                                               
reporter from  Channel 11 was  his personal experience  with MRSA                                                               
and his  own opinions about  what should  be done to  inmates who                                                               
are  contagious. He  clearly stated  that the  opinions were  his                                                               
own. What  is important to him  is that it says  he was suspended                                                               
for   talking  to   the  press   and  he   would  challenge   the                                                               
administration to hold itself to  the standards it sets. He noted                                                               
that  the third  paragraph of  the report  says that  his actions                                                               
indicate disrespect  for the department  and for  management. But                                                               
he  would say  that he  has high  respect for  the more  than 700                                                               
officers who  work in the DOC.  He's worked for the  DOC for more                                                               
than 25  years and believes  that respect  is earned, and  in his                                                               
opinion, the current management team  has not earned any respect.                                                               
"When you  lack integrity  and you lack  honesty in  dealing with                                                               
problems,  that doesn't  earn  you kudos  and  respect from  your                                                               
staff," he said.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. HANSON explained that a  simple nose swab identifies carriers                                                               
of MRSA,  and most hospitals do  that test on intake.  He relayed                                                               
that he is  a carrier of MRSA because he's  allergic to the drugs                                                               
that kill MRSA.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  FRENCH  asked  how  he  keeps it  from  again  becoming  a                                                               
problem.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. HANSON  described his experience  with MRSA and  his reaction                                                               
to the sulfa  drug he was given to treat  the infection. He added                                                               
that his wife, who works at Spring Creek, also contracted MRSA.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
11:44:38 AM                                                                                                                   
CHAIR  FRENCH said  the hearing  is also  about overcrowding  and                                                               
staffing levels. He noted that  legislators today saw examples of                                                               
three  prisoners  in a  cell  and  a single  corrections  officer                                                               
handling 90  inmates for meals,  and asked what the  situation is                                                               
at Spring Creek.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. HANSON  said he  would prefer  not to speak  to that,  but he                                                               
would say  that it  is over  the maximum  inmate capacity  and is                                                               
habitually understaffed. He's been at Spring Creek for 6 years.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI  asked if he's  seen other cases  of inmates                                                               
with MRSA.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HANSON answered  yes. In  fact,  when he  was suspended  for                                                               
supposedly giving  wrong information  to the  press on  MRSA, the                                                               
bulletin  board inside  the Spring  Creek entrance  had a  poster                                                               
about MRSA. He explained that  until recently if an infection was                                                               
treated at  the institution  clinic and it  went away,  it wasn't                                                               
diagnosed as  MRSA. It  was only if  the person had  to go  to an                                                               
outside clinic or  hospital for treatment that  the infection was                                                               
diagnosed  as MRSA.  Just  lately a  tracking  system within  the                                                               
institution has been started.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
11:46:45 AM                                                                                                                   
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked for an  estimate of the number of MRSA                                                               
cases at Spring Creek in the last year.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HANSON replied  more  than  10 and  some  inmates have  been                                                               
infected twice. "When  I got spanked for talking to  the press, I                                                               
actually  had inmates  thank me  when I  came back  to work,"  he                                                               
added.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR THERRIAULT referred  to the memo of  reprimands and noted                                                               
Mr.  Hanson's  statement  that  he didn't  follow  the  chain  of                                                               
command before going to the press.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. HANSON  responded that  the department  maintains that  for a                                                               
corrections  officer  to  exercise  his or  her  First  Amendment                                                               
right,  he  must  first  ask  permission  through  the  chain  of                                                               
command.  But case  law  in the  Lower-48  indicates that  public                                                               
employees  can  take  matters  of public  concern  to  the  press                                                               
without asking  permission. I simply brought  forward my personal                                                               
experience  with MRSA  and my  opinion about  how MRSA  should be                                                               
handled,  based on  research and  the federal  bureau of  prisons                                                               
handbook.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  THERRIAULT asked  if he  attempted to  use the  chain of                                                               
command.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HANSON explained  that when  he returned  to work  after his                                                               
MRSA infection was clear, he  gave a Spring Creek administrator a                                                               
copy of  the federal  bureau of prisons  guide for  handling MRSA                                                               
outbreaks. In that general timeframe he  was asked if he would be                                                               
willing to talk about MRSA and he said yes.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DOLL asked  if an  inmate must  be clear  of MRSA                                                               
before being released into the community.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
11:50:12 AM                                                                                                                   
MR. HANSON  replied he  knows of  no legal  basis for  holding an                                                               
inmate because of  illness once they have  served their sentence.                                                               
MRSA is much more prevalent  inside institutions than outside and                                                               
containment  is  the  issue.  An  inmate  or  officer  should  be                                                               
isolated when  they are  contagious. "That's  the easiest  way of                                                               
dealing with it," he said.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
11:51:29 AM                                                                                                                   
DON  MACOMBER, laid  off Corrections  officer III,  Spring Creek,                                                               
Department of Corrections,  read a statement into  the record. He                                                               
said that being  laid off apparently makes him an  anomaly as the                                                               
first corrections  officer to be laid  off in the last  decade or                                                               
so. He explained  that in January 2005 he  contracted a bacterial                                                               
infection with  cellulites and a red  swollen rash on his  face a                                                               
few days after  processing a prisoner who had  a staph infection.                                                               
He  was  treated  with  antibiotics   at  the  Seward  Providence                                                               
emergency room. In contrast, prisoners  with infections and other                                                               
diseases are  currently treated by  medical personnel  and housed                                                               
in the  general prison  population. Corrections  officers receive                                                               
no  information  from  the   prison  administration  about  which                                                               
prisoners   have  infectious   diseases.  "The   administration's                                                               
solution to prison  infections is to wash  the prisoners' showers                                                               
and   general   population  areas   three   times   a  day   with                                                               
disinfectants," he said.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MACOMBER  said that  officer  morale  is  low at  this  time                                                               
because of  the issue with infectious  diseases, staffing issues,                                                               
lack  of  communication,  and  no   viable  solutions  with  this                                                               
administration. "I  am here  before you  in the  hope of  being a                                                               
voice  and  an instrument  in  changing  these deficiencies,"  he                                                               
said.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOLL asked what it means to be in lay off status.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. MACOMBER explained that he is  currently in lay off status as                                                               
a corrections officer III for up to 2 year.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOLL asked if he requested that status.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. MACOMBER replied  he was given a choice of  taking a demotion                                                               
and pay decrease or being laid off.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH asked what prompted that.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. MACOMBER explained  that two sergeants were  terminated 12 or                                                               
18 months  before he promoted  and they went  through arbitration                                                               
to get their jobs back.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH  recapped that he was  promoted into a job  that was                                                               
later filled  by someone  returning to service  and he  was given                                                               
the opportunity to take a demotion and he didn't want that.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. MACOMBER  reiterated that  his choices  were demotion  with a                                                               
decrease in pay status or lay off.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
11:56:24 AM                                                                                                                   
MR. WILSON guaranteed that although  MRSA is taking center stage,                                                               
95 percent of  the officers present are here  because of staffing                                                               
issues.  The  DOC  says  that staffing  is  good  and  correction                                                               
officers  aren't being  as  truthful  as they  ought  to be.  "We                                                               
obviously argue  that staffing  is down," he  said. We'd  like to                                                               
discuss position  control numbers  (PCNs), ratios,  officers, and                                                               
shift minimums. The use of PCNs  doesn't give an accurate idea of                                                               
number of  officers relative to  the number of inmates.  PCNs are                                                               
what the  Legislature funds. Some  797 PCNs were funded  over the                                                               
last 2 to  3 years, but the commissioner said  that in 2006 there                                                               
was  an  average of  707  officers.  Although there's  talk  that                                                               
correction  officers  are  interfering   with  programs  to  help                                                               
inmates  reenter  society,  that's  false. We  don't  know  where                                                               
that's  coming  from,  but  it  might stem  from  the  fact  that                                                               
correction   officers  asked   the  Legislature   not  to   allow                                                               
corrections positions to  be used to fund programs.  "That is the                                                               
only thing  that we  can think  of that we  could have  done that                                                               
interferes with programs," he said.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
The second issue is officer  numbers. Using data provided by DOC,                                                               
he showed two  staffing graphs. As previously  stated, the number                                                               
of officers increased  by 34 in 2007. In January  2007 there were                                                               
733 officers  - Marc Antrim brought  the numbers up and  that was                                                               
appreciated - but that is not  the number of people on the floor.                                                               
During the  year the  inmate population  increased from  3,385 to                                                               
3,718. When  the additional 34  officers are spread over  all the                                                               
institutions and  each institution has four  shifts, that amounts                                                               
to an  increase of 1.6 officers  per shift. What you  should look                                                               
at is shift minimums - the number  of people on the floor to take                                                               
care of  inmates. For  example, in November  2006 the  roster for                                                               
the night  shift for  the Anchorage Jail  shows 20  officers. The                                                               
minimum   is  19;   one  officer   was  in   training.  The   new                                                               
administration "lopped  the minimums." On 5/22/08  the minimum at                                                               
the same  location for the same  shift was 16 officers.  That's 3                                                               
fewer officers  to handle  many more  inmates. It's  the minimums                                                               
that matter  so when you  talk to  the department, always  ask if                                                               
the minimums are the same, he said.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
12:05:33 PM                                                                                                                   
Senator Huggins joined the hearing.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILSON said  even when you bring in the  43 new officers that                                                               
is  only 1.4  officers per  shift per  facility statewide,  which                                                               
leaves  you with  3 fewer  officers for  a lot  more inmates.  He                                                               
clarified he is only using data from the 13 institutions.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILSON turned  to a graph of inmate to  officer ratios at the                                                               
Anchorage Jail  East and  the Anchorage Jail  West. He  said that                                                               
they like  to use ratios, but  they figure all the  officers that                                                               
work  for the  department in  the calculation.  The problem  with                                                               
that is that  only one fourth of the officers  are working at any                                                               
one time. A fair ratio would  divide the number of inmates in the                                                               
institution  by  the  number  of  officers  that  are  working  a                                                               
particular  shift.  For  example,   472  inmates  divided  by  19                                                               
officers yields a ratio of 24.8 inmates per officer.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH clarified that he  is dividing the number of inmates                                                               
by the number of officers. Mr. Wilson agreed.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
12:08:03 PM                                                                                                                   
MR. WILSON  showed a chart  of the history of  inmate populations                                                               
in  Alaska. According  to  Cleary, there  were  3,099 inmates  in                                                               
Alaska   institutions   at   one   particular   time.   Comparing                                                               
populations in August  1997 and December 2006, there  has been an                                                               
increase  of 286  inmates. That's  an average  increase of  31.77                                                               
inmates for each of the 9 years.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH  asked if more  beds were  added during that  9 year                                                               
period.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILSON  said the Sixth  Avenue Jail was closed  and Anchorage                                                               
Jail  East  was opened  in  2002.  In  December 2006,  when  this                                                               
administration came in, there were  3,385 inmates and by December                                                               
2007 the  inmate population increased  by 333. "It  has increased                                                               
more in  one year,  than in  the previous  9 years  combined," he                                                               
said. During that same time the officer minimums were dropping.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILSON  acknowledged that the administration  will take issue                                                               
with the minimums.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI  asked if the correction  officers had tried                                                               
to talk to the administration about MRSA and staffing issues.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILSON replied,  "We had a very close  working relationship …                                                               
and then about August last  year communication ended." After some                                                               
period  they  were  told to  communicate  with  the  commissioner                                                               
through  Ms. Kiesel.  When  communication  with the  commissioner                                                               
ended, they continued to send letters.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI  asked  him   to  clarify  the  meaning  of                                                               
"communication ended."                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  WILSON  explained that  ACOA  sent  a letter  talking  about                                                               
issues from  the board.  It was  straightforward and  that soured                                                               
the relationship.  After some time  he was told that  union calls                                                               
were no  longer being taken.  As the  problems got worse,  we did                                                               
everything we could  to continue to communicate, he  said. We met                                                               
with Randy  Ruaro, sent a  letter to  the Governor, and  asked to                                                               
meet  with  Deputy  Chief  of  Staff  Nizich.  We  asked  for  an                                                               
independent person  to look  at and  evaluate the  situation. But                                                               
they've been adamant that there is nothing wrong, he said.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
12:13:44 PM                                                                                                                   
REPRESENTATIVE DOLL asked for confirmation  that he's saying that                                                               
in the  last 10 years the  number of officers has  increased by 2                                                               
while the  number of prisoners has  increased by 333 in  just the                                                               
last year.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  WILSON responded  that those  are the  figures ACOA  has. He                                                               
then said that  his last talking point relates  to money. There's                                                               
been  a  lot of  discussion  that  bringing prisoners  back  from                                                               
Arizona would save $50 per inmate per  day as long as there is no                                                               
additional   construction  or   additional   officers.  For   300                                                               
prisoners that  would amount to a  savings of $15,000 per  day or                                                               
$5.4 million a year. "There is money  in the budget to do what we                                                               
have  to do  and the  very least  we have  to do  is bring  those                                                               
minimums back  up to what they  were in December 2006,"  he said.                                                               
That  doesn't solve  all the  problems,  but it's  a good  start.                                                               
That's in  addition to  the 30  PCNs that were  moved for  use as                                                               
overtime. "So you  still have that overtime budget  in the budget                                                               
plus you have this additional savings of $5.4 million."                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
12:15:49 PM                                                                                                                   
CHAIR  FRENCH   announced  a  lunch  break.   The  commissioner's                                                               
presentation would begin at 1:15 pm.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:18:56 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR FRENCH  reconvened the meeting  and asked  the commissioner                                                               
to put himself on the record.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:19:27 PM                                                                                                                    
JOE  SCHMIDT,  Commissioner,  Department  of  Corrections  (DOC),                                                               
stated  that  he  would  first  talk  about  MRSA.  "We've  heard                                                               
publicly  hundreds of  cases rampant  through  the department.  A                                                               
dozen  officers  bringing it  home  to  their families.  This  is                                                               
worthy of …  all of your attention. I was  encouraged to hear Mr.                                                               
Wilson earlier say he didn't really  say that, but that's what we                                                               
all came to react to."                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER SCHMIDT  said that he  would discuss when  DOC first                                                               
became  aware of  the  MRSA issue  and what  was  done; he  would                                                               
answer questions  from a management perspective.  With respect to                                                               
communication issues, he  said that Ms. Kiesel has  been with him                                                               
all  along  to  deal  with communication  with  ACOA.  She  would                                                               
clarify  the  communication  Mr.  Wilson  referred  to  with  the                                                               
governor's  office. Mr.  Brandenburg  would  talk about  staffing                                                               
ratios.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  SCHMIDT relayed  that it  was 2006  when the  first                                                               
officer  at Spring  Creek came  down  with a  MRSA infection.  In                                                               
November   2007  ACOA   first  expressed   concern  about   staph                                                               
infections and MRSA. In Dec  2007 the director's office conducted                                                               
a survey  of the  facilities and  recorded 2  cases of  MRSA. One                                                               
case was from  2006 and one was from December  2007. On January 4                                                               
the  director's   office  sent  out  four   documents  with  MRSA                                                               
information: infection control,  an information poster, manager's                                                               
information, and  protocols on recognizing  MRSA and  what action                                                               
to take.  In February 2008 DOC  released a new policy  on medical                                                               
co-pay that dropped the standard  $4 co-pay if a prisoner thought                                                               
he or  she might have a  MRSA infection. "We didn't  want to have                                                               
people trying  to save  the 4  bucks and not  go to  medical," he                                                               
said.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH asked if the fee is waived for other conditions.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  SCHMIDT replied  he  hasn't waived  the co-pay  for                                                               
anything else, but if the inmate  is indigent he or she obviously                                                               
wouldn't pay and medical care  wouldn't be denied. Continuing, he                                                               
said  that   a  new  policy   on  institutional   sanitation  was                                                               
established on April  21. It covers what to do  to combat MRSA if                                                               
domestic  hot water  is  lower than  160  degrees Fahrenheit.  He                                                               
relayed  that   earlier  in   the  month   14  prisoners   and  2                                                               
correctional staff had MRSA infections.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:22:58 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  FRENCH  recognized  that Representative  Bill  Stoltz  had                                                               
joined the hearing.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL referred  to  the survey  that was  first                                                               
conducted on  staff members  with MRSA  and asked  if there  is a                                                               
corollary for inmates.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER SCHMIDT replied  we know there were  14 earlier this                                                               
month and the Spring Creek facility  has been tracking MRSA for 4                                                               
years. "It looks  like there were 51 separate  individuals over a                                                               
4 year period that had MRSA," he added.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL  asked  him to  address  the  maintenance                                                               
issue since testimony indicates that  it's difficult to get water                                                               
heated to 160 degrees.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  SCHMIDT  replied he  did  speak  with a  facilities                                                               
manager  about hot  water and  although he  can't quote  an exact                                                               
temperature, 160  degree water would  severely scald  someone. "I                                                               
think 115 [degrees]  is the standard for taps and  I believe it's                                                               
a little higher for washing machines," he said.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL  said the  assertion  is  that tap  water                                                               
isn't  hot  enough.  Acknowledging  that  there  would  be  other                                                               
problems if  tap water was  too hot,  he said the  expectation is                                                               
that washing and cleaning is done with hotter water.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  SCHMIDT answered  yes, but  he'd have  to get  back                                                               
with the exact temperature.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked the population at Spring Creek.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER SCHMIDT replied the average population is 525.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI asked  if  that's the  only facility  where                                                               
MRSA had been tracked.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER SCHMIDT  said yes.  Responding to a  second question                                                               
he said confirmed that 14 cases were found statewide.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked how MRSA is treated.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  SCHMIDT deferred  to  medical  personnel and  added                                                               
that he's  heard that antibiotics  are used, but he  doesn't know                                                               
what kind. When there's resistance other antibiotics are used.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if he  knows how many people have been                                                               
treated with that kind of antibiotic.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER SCHMIDT said he didn't know.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI asked  if  51 [cases]  at  one facility  is                                                               
considered a lot or par for the course.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER SCHMIDT replied, "It's the  only snapshot we have so                                                               
it's  hard to  answer that."  Because we're  now tracking  it, we                                                               
will know in 6 to 12 months, he added.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:26:52 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR FRENCH recognized that Senator  Huggins and Senator McGuire                                                               
joined the hearing.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH asked if MRSA is now tracked in DOC facilities.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER SCHMIDT answered yes.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH asked if tracking at Spring Creek was a pilot.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  SCHMIDT said  yes and  he doesn't  know why  it was                                                               
started  in 2004.  "There must  have  been something  come up  in                                                               
Seward, at  least, and  that one worksite  started to  track." In                                                               
response to  a question, he  asked the  committee to rely  on the                                                               
epidemiologist to talk about tracking  efforts. He then asked Mr.                                                               
Brandenburg to join him to talk about staffing.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:27:32 PM                                                                                                                    
BRYAN  BRANDENBURG, Deputy  Director,  Division of  Institutions,                                                               
Department of  Corrections, introduced  himself. He  relayed that                                                               
he's been studying staff and inmate  ratios for 6 months. In 2004                                                               
a staffing study  was done for all DOC facilities.  "When we came                                                               
onboard we  reviewed that  staffing study …."  In 2007  a revised                                                               
staffing study was  done. The review found that  during the prior                                                               
administration several  unfunded overtime posts were  added. That                                                               
created a problem  because we didn't have funds to  pay for those                                                               
posts.  They were  eliminated. He  pointed out  that in  2006 the                                                               
average number  of correction officers  ("COs") on the  floor was                                                               
703. In 2007  the average number was  736 and so far  in 2008 the                                                               
average  is  736.   This  year  we  asked   the  Legislature  for                                                               
additional PCNs [position control numbers] to get more staff.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     One  of the  things  that was  evident  from the  prior                                                                    
     method of  looking at  our staffing  and our  PCN count                                                                    
     was that there were -  we had 30 … vacancy-and-turnover                                                                    
     positions and  30 premium-pay positions. And  so what I                                                                    
     discovered and what I've learned  since I've been doing                                                                    
     this  job is  that those  positions were  budgeted, but                                                                    
     they weren't  funded. So  it would  appear that  we had                                                                    
     more PCNs than  what we really, actually,  had and were                                                                    
     available  to fill.  …When we  went to  the Legislature                                                                    
     this year we  said, 'Please give us  these extra PCNs.'                                                                    
     … Do away  with this VNT, do away with  the premium pay                                                                    
     and we'll  make the  facilities work with  this number.                                                                    
     And so,  you guys did that  and we have 786  PCNs as of                                                                    
     July 1 to man our facilities.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Starting July 1 there will be  83 more COs in the facilities than                                                               
there were in 2006, he said.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BRANDENBURG said  that when  he researched  inmate to  staff                                                               
ratios he  looked at  statistics from the  Bureau of  Justice for                                                               
2002 as  well as the  American Correctional Association.  In 2006                                                               
we had  703 staff  and 3,514  inmates, which gives  a ratio  1 to                                                               
4.9. In 2007  there were 736 staff and 3,601  inmates for a staff                                                               
to inmate  ratio of 1  to 4.8. Thus far  in 2008 there  are 3,701                                                               
inmates  to 736  staff for  a  ratio of  1  to 5.  The Bureau  of                                                               
Justice statistics indicate the national  average is 1 to 6.7 and                                                               
the Federal  Bureau of  Prisons shows  a ratio of  1 to  9.1. "So                                                               
we're well below the national average  when it comes to inmate to                                                               
staff ratios," he said.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH  asked if legislators and  COs could have a  copy of                                                               
his written report.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRANDENBURG agreed to supply copies.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:32:53 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  FRENCH  recognized  that  Senator  Therriault  joined  the                                                               
hearing.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  FRENCH asked  if he  agrees  with the  assertion that  the                                                               
minimums  have  been  reduced. The  example  from  the  Anchorage                                                               
correctional facility  was that the  minimum had been 19  and now                                                               
it's 16.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  SCHMIDT  pointed  out  that  those  are  nightshift                                                               
numbers and thus  are lower because all the  prisoners are locked                                                               
in  their rooms.  When  he was  superintendent  at the  Anchorage                                                               
complex the  day shift  minimum was  36. "That  means that  if we                                                               
ever fell below  36 we went out hunting for  overtime." Today the                                                               
dayshift minimum is 39.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  FRENCH asked  if he  agrees  that the  minimums have  been                                                               
reduced. APOC says it's down to 16 and you say it's down to 17.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER SCHMIDT  said when  he left  in 2005  it was  36 and                                                               
today it's 39. He continued:                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     It did spike.  It went up as  high as 42 on  days … for                                                                    
     minimums.  But  those  were unfunded  positions.  Those                                                                    
     were overtime positions. So when  everyone came to work                                                                    
     that still wasn't enough people.  With a minimum of 42,                                                                    
     every single person could come  to work that day, which                                                                    
     is  rare   because  there's  always  somebody   off  on                                                                    
     training or  sick leave or something,  and every single                                                                    
     person could come to work  and you're still looking for                                                                    
     overtime.  It was  a huge  overtime deficit.  So rather                                                                    
     than just chop it out our  first year, we knew that had                                                                    
     to be  addressed because going  to the  Legislature, we                                                                    
     don't want  to go  and say we  need this  much resource                                                                    
     and then  spend 10 or 15  or 20 percent more  than that                                                                    
     just because we have  posts that aren't funded. They're                                                                    
     not on any kind of a  report and they're not counted on                                                                    
     any  official legislative  type of  transaction. So  we                                                                    
     took a year and the  supplemental our first year in was                                                                    
     projected to be $17 million.  Much of that was overtime                                                                    
     budget. Dwayne can talk later  about the budget. That's                                                                    
     reduced  substantially  and  we  want  to  continue  to                                                                    
     reduce it. We don't  think overtime should be scheduled                                                                    
     just because  you don't have  enough. Your  should have                                                                    
     posting  to cover  your job  and then  overtime is  for                                                                    
     things  that  you  don't  see   coming  -  sick  leave,                                                                    
     training, academies,  things like that. …  We shouldn't                                                                    
     have  everybody come  to work  and still  be short.  So                                                                    
     while   the   unfunded   overtime   posts   have   been                                                                    
     eliminated,  we have  added staff  and  added posts  as                                                                    
     they've come up. And it  should be noted that the first                                                                    
     year  we didn't  ask  for more  CO  positions, we  just                                                                    
     filled all  that we had.  We had  737 and the  year end                                                                    
     average for '06  was 736, which was a bit  of a tactic.                                                                    
     We go  to the Legislature  this year and said,  look we                                                                    
     can  in fact  fill all  of  our positions  - train  and                                                                    
     retain these  folks. We  need to  stop the  business of                                                                    
     not funding 30 or 40  of our positions. We need funding                                                                    
     for  them because  we can  fill  them. The  Legislature                                                                    
     agreed with  us and gave  us that funding. So  while no                                                                    
     PCNs were created,  funding was added to  the PCNs that                                                                    
     we already  had. And that's  the way we're  going about                                                                    
     it.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:36:06 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI  referred  to   the  statistics  that  were                                                               
provided and  acknowledged that  1 to  4 or 5  is lower  than the                                                               
national average. But, he said,  it seems that a better statistic                                                               
is the  number of officers  on the  floor with the  prisoners. At                                                               
the Anchorage Correctional Complex West  there was one model that                                                               
had 94  prisoners to  1 corrections officer.  "Isn't that  a more                                                               
appropriate way of looking at the numbers?" he asked.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRANDENBURG responded there are  also units with 36 prisoners                                                               
and  1 officer.  The numbers  he provided  are based  on national                                                               
organizations  that do  this for  a  living. "They  went out  and                                                               
polled  all   the  facilities  across   the  United   States  and                                                               
determined, using that  ratio or that method,  to determine their                                                               
ratios of staff to inmates."                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:37:43 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  McGUIRE asked  if the  department  spends time  thinking                                                               
about the  appropriate staff to  prisoner ratio and what  makes a                                                               
good work environment and safe place to house prisoners.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER SCHMIDT  replied he  could used his  work experience                                                               
as a corrections  officer for 14 years but  it's more appropriate                                                               
to use national  averages to come up with the  plan. With respect                                                               
to  whether the  system is  safe,  he said  they've been  keeping                                                               
special incident  reports since  January 2007. System  wide there                                                               
have been 19 special incident  reports on staff assaults. Getting                                                               
hit is  never okay, but he  can't say that more  staff would stop                                                               
it. I think we  would all agree that it would  help, he said, and                                                               
if  you  were to  conclude  that  we  need  more staff  we  would                                                               
probably agree and  move forward to justify  the increase. "Right                                                               
now we  have national averages and  we have the safety  rating as                                                               
it is.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BRANDENBURG relayed  that to  add a  24 post,  which is  4.8                                                               
officers, it would cost an additional $500,000.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  FRENCH  referred  to  the  tabbed  binder  and  said  it's                                                               
important to  keep in  mind the  information from  the Washington                                                               
State Institute  for Public Policy that  discusses evidence-based                                                               
adult corrections programs  - what works and  what doesn't. Maybe                                                               
we do have  enough COs, but we  saw three people in  a tiny cell,                                                               
prisoners  sleeping on  the floor  and prisoners  housed in  what                                                               
once  was a  gym. He  asked what  will happen  to alleviate  that                                                               
problem.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  FRENCH recognized  that Representative  Ramras had  joined                                                               
the hearing.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  SCHMIDT  highlighted reentry  programs,  recidivism                                                               
course  studies,  and funding  to  study  programs that  will  be                                                               
implemented.  All that  helps, but  it isn't  the magic  cure, he                                                               
said. Phase 1 and 2 expansions will help. He continued:                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     We've  taken  previously  approved  capital  monies  or                                                                    
     operational  monies from  FY08  and  we're building  60                                                                    
     beds out  at Palmer. And  the primary reason  for those                                                                    
     is  we're going  to run  a bus  back and  forth several                                                                    
     times  a  week if  not  more  to  relieve some  of  the                                                                    
     Anchorage  burden. Anchorage  is a  tricky one.  If you                                                                    
     want to see crowing, you  gotta go to Anchorage because                                                                    
     those  folks are  all going  to  court. Daily,  weekly,                                                                    
     monthly  -  they're  there for  a  reason.  The  deputy                                                                    
     director and  in some cases the  commissioner calls the                                                                    
     classification folks  every single day and  asks who is                                                                    
     there who doesn't need to be  there. Could they be in a                                                                    
     halfway house,  could they be  in another  facility, is                                                                    
     their court date a couple  months away so they could go                                                                    
     to Seward  or Arizona  or anywhere. Because  that's the                                                                    
     one we know  gets crowded and it's the one  we have the                                                                    
     hardest time  making un-crowded.  This piece  at Palmer                                                                    
     will  give  us some  relief  -  the  cure to  that,  of                                                                    
     course, is more hard beds  in Anchorage. And as long as                                                                    
     we're processing  people through  court at  the numbers                                                                    
     that  we  are, that's  just  what's  going to  have  to                                                                    
     happen.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Phase 1 also talks about  Fairbanks 38 beds and 60 beds                                                                    
     down  at Kenai.  Phase  2 is  implementation of  Senate                                                                    
     Bill 65. And that's going to  put about 1,700 on line -                                                                    
     1,530  out  at  Point  MacKenzie  at  a  new  facility.                                                                    
     Occupancy we  expect February of 2012.  Hopefully we'll                                                                    
     start  late 2011  with some  occupancy, but  that's the                                                                    
     timeframe that we have.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH  confirmed that  the 1,500 bed  facility will  be in                                                               
MatSu  and  asked  if  he   agrees  that  last  year  the  prison                                                               
population grew by about 300.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER SCHMIDT replied we're using 250.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH  asked if he  roughly agrees that the  increase over                                                               
the previous 10 years was about 250 [per year].                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER SCHMIDT  said no. In  January 2007 we looked  back 5                                                               
years and took an average. The increase per year was 137.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH asked how he explains the numbers ACOA is using.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BRANDENBURG  explained,  "Our   numbers  came  from  central                                                               
classification  that   tracks  our   daily  counts  in   all  our                                                               
facilities. And so  they gave us a yearly average  based on those                                                               
counts from each of the facilities around the state."                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH  asked if it's possible  to look at the  numbers and                                                               
be confused because there's a huge disparity.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER SCHMIDT explained:                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     What  happened  is  we're  137  and  it  was  a  5-year                                                                    
     average.  Well we  had our  first full  year in  and in                                                                    
     January '08  we were  250. And when  we looked  back to                                                                    
     take another  5-year average  … there  was a  big spike                                                                    
     right  at the  end. The  last couple  of years  were up                                                                    
     more. I don't  know exactly what they were,  but it was                                                                    
     more than 137. That made the average come up to 137.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH continued to question  the disparity between the two                                                               
averages.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:45:25 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. BRANDENBURG  explained that, "In  '05 we were 3,341  and this                                                               
year so  far we've been  at 3,701 so  whatever that amount  is is                                                               
the average increase in our census from '05 to this month."                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH  asked if  there would still  be inmates  in Arizona                                                               
when the  new 1,500 bed  facility opens 4  years from now  if the                                                               
prison population is increasing by 150-200 inmates per year.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER SCHMIDT said  yes. We were using 137  when we talked                                                               
about a 1,200 bed facility and  when we started to realize it was                                                               
250  or more,  we  increased  the estimate  to  1,530 beds.  Even                                                               
bumping it  up we're looking  at about  150 inmates being  out of                                                               
state unless another unit is  built. The reason they didn't start                                                               
over and come up  with a way to build more  beds is because there                                                               
are 165 prisoners in the system  with release dates that are more                                                               
than 40  years from now. We  haven't given up on  those prisoners                                                               
but the one's  that will never reintegrate would be  the first to                                                               
go out of state. "They are  our responsibility and they should be                                                               
here, but we can only afford to go so much and so fast."                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:46:46 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  McGUIRE  pointed  out  that  inmate  safety  is  also  a                                                               
concern. When she  visited the Fairbanks facility  she noted that                                                               
an inmate  who was serving  a DUI sentence  could bunk next  to a                                                               
documented serial murderer.  She said she could  feel the tension                                                               
and  she was  afraid. We  tend to  define problems  the same  way                                                               
forever,  she said.  We're looking  at  national averages  rather                                                               
than going up  to 35,000 feet and asking what  ratio will provide                                                               
the best safety and morale. She  said she also could feel tension                                                               
among  the officers.  That's an  unhealthy work  environment that                                                               
has to affect recruitment and retention, she said.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:48:47 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  BRANDENBURG explained  that  currently there  is no  initial                                                               
classification system  so all incoming  prisoners are  treated in                                                               
close custody.  "So someone that  has their  first DUI is  like a                                                               
minimum custody person  so that they are not  housed with someone                                                               
who is …  a more serious felony." This  administration is looking                                                               
at improving  the system  so that it's  possible to  classify new                                                               
prisoners  within  the  first  24  hours. A  pilot  study  is  in                                                               
progress.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:49:54 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  FRENCH  asked  who   makes  the  classification  decisions                                                               
because it's always struck him that  you can win or lose the game                                                               
right there.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER SCHMIDT replied it's  the probation officers at each                                                               
facility. He continued to say:                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     The system that we use  now is a historical static sort                                                                    
     of system so they look at  a lot of different data that                                                                    
     really  doesn't change  for a  person. The  system that                                                                    
     we're looking  at is more  dynamic so that it  gives an                                                                    
     individual  an  opportunity  to  change  their  custody                                                                    
     classification  so  that  they   can  move  within  the                                                                    
     system, which  will fit  into what  we're trying  to do                                                                    
     with our programs and our rehabilitation program.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOLL said she imagines  that overtime is mandatory                                                               
so fatigue  becomes a  factor. "It appears  as if  we're spending                                                               
probably much  more money on  overtime than we actually  would if                                                               
we hired more."                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  SCHMIDT agreed  and added  that they're  working to                                                               
fund every post with at least 4.8  PCNs so there won't be as much                                                               
need for  overtime. Then we  can cover  most things that  come up                                                               
when there's absenteeism, he said.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOLL asked what the  budget request for that would                                                               
be for next year.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER SCHMIDT replied it's too early to say.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOLL said she looks forward to seeing that.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:52:05 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. BRANDENBURG said that another  thing about using the national                                                               
standard is that  it's based on states that are  also part of the                                                               
unified system,  jails and prisons  combined. "We're  well within                                                               
those ratios for  those facilities," he said.  Some places around                                                               
the country have  rations of 1 to  12 and 1 to 21  so we're lucky                                                               
to be where we are.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  SCHMIDT  referred  to  Senator  McGuire's  question                                                               
about the  right ratios  and said  it's really  not that  easy to                                                               
answer.  What  do  you  do  when  you  step  away  from  national                                                               
averages? DOC  is asking  for a substantial  amount of  money and                                                               
you  don't  base  that  on  feelings. One  thing  the  union  and                                                               
management can  work on  together is talking  about how  it would                                                               
improve morale  to increase ratios,  and if it makes  sense we'll                                                               
present the case  for more staff to the  Legislature. We've never                                                               
asked for less staff, but we  aren't willing to throw these posts                                                               
out  there that  have no  positions  and no  funding. That  isn't                                                               
responsible. We want  to make sure our money  is spent correctly.                                                               
"Everything we  do is  funded, every  bed is  counted." Currently                                                               
we're  at 101  percent, but  if  we were  to move  500 people  to                                                               
Arizona  tomorrow  they  would  not come  out  of  the  Anchorage                                                               
complex. What  would happen is  that the budget down  there would                                                               
increase by  about $15 million  and we'd  have 500 empty  beds in                                                               
the system  up here.  I don't  believe the  public would  be okay                                                               
with that, he  said. Our premise has  been that we need  to be at                                                               
100 percent  before we  spend money in  Arizona. This  year we're                                                               
spending $25 million down there  to handle overflow, but it's not                                                               
overflow if we have empty beds up here.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER SCHMIDT continued to say:                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     The bunks and  gym were added in 2005 and  2006. "All I                                                                    
     did was  count them.  If there's prisoners  sleeping in                                                                    
     them  and we're  using them,  I put  them on  the count                                                                    
     sheet. That  was quite a  stir. The ads that  the union                                                                    
     was  running on  TV were  talking about  your emergency                                                                    
     cap and all  that. That's what they  were talking about                                                                    
     is counting  all those  bunks. I  said before  and I'll                                                                    
     say  again on  record, I'd  rather have  the gyms  back                                                                    
     frankly. Let the prisoners go  in there particularly in                                                                    
     Fairbanks where it's 60 below  and burn off some steam.                                                                    
     They're  easier to  manage. However,  would the  public                                                                    
     stand for that?  Should we shift those 80 or  90 or 100                                                                    
     prisoners to Arizona to open the gym back up?                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:55:40 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI  recapped that according to  the charts that                                                               
were displayed  this morning  there were  3,099 inmates  at about                                                               
the  time the  Cleary  decision  was issued  in  August 1997.  In                                                               
December  2006 there  were  3,385 inmates  and  in December  2007                                                               
there  were  3,718  inmates.  In   August  1997  there  were  731                                                               
correction  officers   and  in  December  2007   there  were  733                                                               
correction officers. He asked if  he agrees that between 1997 and                                                               
2007 there was an increase of  about 600 inmates and 2 correction                                                               
officers.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  FRENCH clarified  that  Senator  Wielechowski was  reading                                                               
from  data  under tab  5  of  the document  labeled  "Legislative                                                               
Hearing May 27, 2008."                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRANDENBURG said the administration  used data from 2005 when                                                               
the average CO count was 697. In  2006 the average was 703 and in                                                               
2007  it was  736. That's  based on  average numbers  out of  the                                                               
personnel  department  in Juneau.  In  each  of those  years  the                                                               
numbers went  over and under.  So far in  2008 the number  of COs                                                               
employed is  736. "The  same is  true for  the counts.  Those are                                                               
from January to  January for that year. It's  an average census,"                                                               
he said.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI asked  if he  agrees that  there's been  an                                                               
increase of about 600 inmates since 1997.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER SCHMIDT replied we don't  know if the numbers quoted                                                               
from 1997 are the average number  of officers working or PCNs. If                                                               
it's PCNs  that weren't  filled, it doesn't  matter. Just  as Mr.                                                               
Wilson said,  what the union and  management do agree on  is that                                                               
the  PCN count  gets confusing.  There can  be lots  of PCNs  but                                                               
unless  they're funded,  available,  and filled  you don't  know.                                                               
We're running with what's on the floor, he said.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:58:33 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR McGUIRE asked what efforts  he's made to communicate with                                                               
the union  and why he thinks  the Judiciary Committee had  to get                                                               
involved with what feels like a family fight.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  SCHMIDT  relayed  that   the  union  met  with  the                                                               
governor's  office in  February to  discuss a  number of  issues.                                                               
Randy  Ruaro reported  back that  after a  number of  issues were                                                               
addressed the union president and  business manager leaned across                                                               
the table  and said that  they didn't  want to talk.  They wanted                                                               
this commissioner gone. That's similar  to what I was told during                                                               
a discipline process  back the previous summer, he  said. At that                                                               
time I was told that the  union arsenal has the grievance and the                                                               
nuclear media bomb. Using the  latter isn't negotiating, it's not                                                               
even  communicating,  he  said.  When   the  union  went  to  the                                                               
governor's office  and did basically  the same thing, we  wrote a                                                               
letter saying we'd be happy to  meet. The union response was that                                                               
it was done  with this commissioner and would only  meet with the                                                               
deputy chief of staff. He continued to say:                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Brad just within the last  couple of days backed out of                                                                    
     a mediation we had  scheduled for tentatively last week                                                                    
     to talk about a ULP  that they filed against the state.                                                                    
     We're seeing  more of a  disconnect and what  we'd like                                                                    
     to  see is  more  of a  connect. And  if  it's a  labor                                                                    
     management committee,  that's fine. If it's  a mediated                                                                    
     resolution  type  meeting   with  a  federal  mediator,                                                                    
     that's fine. It doesn't matter,  but many of the issues                                                                    
     that I saw,  not knowing what was all going  to be here                                                                    
     today, many  of the issues  that we saw this  morning -                                                                    
     some communication  would help  or fix probably  all of                                                                    
     them. We're  not going  to agree  on certain  things. …                                                                    
     However, if  we're talking about  it that's the  way to                                                                    
     go.  We've had  an open  invitation, but  their refusal                                                                    
     has not come from our side.  And it won't come from our                                                                    
     side. I've said  we'll come to these  meetings as often                                                                    
     as  we need  to. We'll  be  honest with  our facts  and                                                                    
     we're not going  to be at odds with  any lawmakers over                                                                    
     this.  When the  union comes  to the  table and  starts                                                                    
     discussing matters,  we're happy  to do so.  That's all                                                                    
     we've needed.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:01:48 PM                                                                                                                    
DIANNE  KIESEL, Deputy  Director, Division  of Personnel  & Labor                                                               
Relations,   Department  of   Administration,   stated  that   in                                                               
September  2007 when  issues came  up between  the commissioner's                                                               
officer and  ACOA, she was  asked to  be the liaison.  That isn't                                                               
unusual   because   unions   don't    typically   walk   into   a                                                               
commissioner's office  to make a  deal. That's  particularly true                                                               
if there's  an issue  related to labor  relations or  a contract.                                                               
Generally it goes through the admin  process - at least the labor                                                               
relations section.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
On Friday she was asked to  be the liaison and the following week                                                               
she sent a  message to Mr. Wilson at ACOA  informing him that she                                                               
would be  the liaison  and that the  lines of  communication were                                                               
open. That generated a number  of emails back and forth. Although                                                               
the union wasn't  happy, she was in fact the  contact until early                                                               
February or March  when the union went to  the governor's office.                                                               
The commissioner  explained what happened with  that process, she                                                               
said.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH  asked if  she participated in  the meetings  at the                                                               
governor's office.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. KIESEL  replied she was  informed of the meetings  after they                                                               
took place. She was asked if  she would facilitate a meeting with                                                               
ACOA  and the  commissioner's office  and  she agreed  to do  so.                                                               
After  the  media  issue  she   suggested  that  perhaps  federal                                                               
mediation was a  better avenue. Federal mediation was  set up for                                                               
the end  of May but it  was postponed when this  meeting came up.                                                               
Hopefully it will occur sometime in June.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH asked what topics the mediation would cover.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. KIESEL replied her recommendation  would be for each party to                                                               
list the topics because there seems to be some confusion.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH asked what topics she would list.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS.  KIESEL said  staffing needs  some work  and it  needs to  be                                                               
clear to  the union  that the commissioner  isn't always  the one                                                               
who administers  all the decisions  that are handed down.  He has                                                               
the  final determination  but administration  often weighs  in on                                                               
disciplinary  issues and  statewide issues.  One issue  mentioned                                                               
today involved denying an injury  leave request from Mr. Godfrey.                                                               
She and Mr. Peeples met  with the workers' compensation folks and                                                               
the  decision was  not  to  approve an  injury  leave because  it                                                               
wasn't  determined  that  the  injury   was  work  related.  That                                                               
decision was  laid on the  commissioner's doorstep when it  was a                                                               
decision made  outside that  realm. There  are other  issues that                                                               
are laid at  his doorstep that shouldn't be as  well. "So I think                                                               
there needs to  be some communication with the union  to let them                                                               
know  why  those  issues  are  truly  happening.  It's  generally                                                               
because  there's  a  statewide  impact or  something  within  the                                                               
contract that prohibits us from  doing some of those things," she                                                               
said.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:05:23 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR FRENCH said  the Legislature this year passed  a law giving                                                               
firefighters  a presumption  if  they  acquire certain  illnesses                                                               
during the course  of their employment as  a firefighter. Because                                                               
it's difficult  to pin down  where you get certain  diseases, you                                                               
just  assume that  because they  respond  to fires  on a  regular                                                               
basis that  an inhalation disease  probably came from a  fire. He                                                               
suggested thinking about  something like that in the  way of MRSA                                                               
infection claims for  correction officers. "It sort  of stands to                                                               
reason if  you're going to a  facility every day where  there are                                                               
hundreds  of less  than perfectly  sanitized individuals,  you're                                                               
probably going to pick it up  at work." He suggested she think it                                                               
over.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. KIESEL responded  that DOC isn't the  only department dealing                                                               
with public contact and the MRSA  issue. I don't know where you'd                                                               
draw the line, she said.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:06:56 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  FRENCH  recognized  that  Senator  Davis  had  joined  the                                                               
hearing.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER SCHMIDT said that if  the Legislature is considering                                                               
a  bill like  the firefighters,  he'd  like to  talk first.  They                                                               
don't have  to come into my  office every time because  there are                                                               
people who can  advise me on these things, but  it'd be nice once                                                               
in awhile,  he said. The  union would find  is that if  they were                                                               
talking things would move ahead.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAMRAS  noted that a  fire alarm went off  when he                                                               
was touring the Fairbanks facility  and he was amazed that nobody                                                               
moved.  It  struck  me  that  there were  two  groups  that  were                                                               
incarcerated  at that  moment -  the inmates  and the  correction                                                               
officers.  Echoing some  of the  remarks of  Senator McGuire,  he                                                               
said  he's seen  astronomical  growth in  the  budget during  his                                                               
tenure  in the  Legislature and  he questions  whether there  has                                                               
been a  commensurate growth in  the DOC budget. It  didn't strike                                                               
him that  way. Also, the building  is old and doesn't  seem safe.                                                               
100 prisoners  sleep on the  floor of the gymnasium  that's never                                                               
in the  dark because  of the  row of high  sodium lights.  "I was                                                               
overall very  impressed with the performance  of the correctional                                                               
officers  in maintaining  order but  … I  was not  very impressed                                                               
with  the amount  of resources  they had  to do  their task,"  he                                                               
said.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER   SCHMIDT   responded    that   he'd   like   Deputy                                                               
Commissioner Peeples  to talk  about the  budget growth  over the                                                               
last several years. He  can say that SB 65 was  the vehicle for a                                                               
statewide  expansion  and  Fairbanks   was  supposed  to  get  an                                                               
additional 80  beds. After  looking at the  numbers it  was clear                                                               
that wasn't enough.  "Fairbanks is one we could  probably use 400                                                               
or 450  beds." It's a hub  for many of the  northern communities.                                                               
The building is  old and there are issues but  the expansion only                                                               
allowed 80  beds and there were  also issues with the  borough as                                                               
far as  putting up the bonds  and supporting the project.  We all                                                               
believe that Fairbanks will need a  new facility. How big it will                                                               
be will be dictated by growth  and what's being done elsewhere in                                                               
the state.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH asked Mr. Peeples to  tell the committee the size of                                                               
the  corrections  budget 4  years  ago,  its  size now,  and  the                                                               
percentage increase that represents.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                              
2:13:20 PM                                                                                                                    
DWAYNE PEEPLES,  Deputy Commissioner, Department  of Corrections,                                                               
said he doesn't  have all the numbers in his  head, but from FY08                                                               
to FY09 the  budget went from $227 million to  $244 million. He'd                                                               
have to go back and pull  numbers to do an historical comparative                                                               
analysis  by department.  Representative Ramras  is correct,  the                                                               
buildings are  old and some  may be getting  to the end  of their                                                               
life,  he  said.  He  has   a  list  of  capital  budget  repair,                                                               
maintenance, and equipment items that  would quickly add up to $1                                                               
billion. There are  current construction needs out  into the next                                                               
10 years.  The average  projected growth over  the next  10 years                                                               
would be  250 beds per year.  A recent piece of  legislation made                                                               
third-time  misdemeanant  assaults a  felony  so  within 5  years                                                               
there will be  an additional 600 people to  adjudicate. About 450                                                               
of those will  be convicted and about 80 percent  will be held in                                                               
Nome, Bethel,  and Fairbanks. They'll  be short termers  so there                                                               
will be  need to increase jail  beds in those areas,  he said. "I                                                               
have not calculated  it out but I think you'll  be needing 400 to                                                               
500 beds in a half a decade in those facilities."                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. PEEPLES  said the growth  projections were made to  the House                                                               
Finance subcommittee and  those numbers can be  revised, based on                                                               
some recent legislation, and supplied to the committee.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:15:59 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL asked  if  there's  any consideration  of                                                               
separating the Fairbanks pretrial facility from housing.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. PEEPLES replied under SB 65  there was a preliminary plan for                                                               
building in Fairbanks, but it's  not feasible right now. The plan                                                               
was for  an 80-bed  unit and  you could  do some  separation with                                                               
that, but  most of  that population  is pre-sentenced.  To return                                                               
mid  or long-term  sentences to  Fairbank  is a  little over  the                                                               
horizon.  He reminded  members that  the Fairbanks  facility area                                                               
draws from  the entire north  end of the  state. In the  long run                                                               
you'll  need  to  do  something  with the  jail,  he  said.  It's                                                               
possible to juggle for awhile,  but it's expensive to operate. It                                                               
has  steam heat  and long  term problems  that the  80 additional                                                               
beds wouldn't address.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL  said  he's reminded  that  the  pretrial                                                               
situation  is  difficult  partly   because  the  fourth  judicial                                                               
district  reaches into  the Kuskoquim  area in  Southwest Alaska.                                                               
There's a huge  amount of traffic rotating through  the court and                                                               
that facility.  Often people  have to go  to Spring  Creek, Nome,                                                               
Juneau,  or  Anchorage  to  make   room  for  that  ever-shifting                                                               
population in Fairbanks. The building simply gets overused.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH recalled that a criticism  he's heard about SB 65 is                                                               
that a large facility was  envisioned and it's ever-shrinking. He                                                               
asked why that's happening and if 1,500 beds is the bottom line.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER SCHMIDT explained a  couple of significant problems.                                                               
SB 65 was passed in 2004  and sat dormant until June 2006. During                                                               
those years  the Anchorage  CPI ran  about 3  percent a  year and                                                               
construction inflation ran between 7  and 9 percent per year. The                                                               
bill provided $330 million to build  a prison and the mega prison                                                               
that was designed as of December  2006 was estimated to cost $405                                                               
million. "So  we were  almost $80 million  over budget  before we                                                               
ever started," he  said. A more significant problem  was that the                                                               
attached  fiscal  note  called  for  staffing  for  a  1,200  bed                                                               
facility.   Anything   more    would   come   from   departmental                                                               
efficiencies.  We decided  we weren't  going to  move ahead  on a                                                               
project that  was $80 million over  budget and had a  fiscal note                                                               
that  provided staff  for 1,200  beds and  2,250 actual  beds. "I                                                               
have no  idea how anybody was  planning on doing that,"  he said.                                                               
We  cut the  beds to  1,200  and spread  it back  out into  other                                                               
communities  such  as  Seward  and   Bethel.  And  we  talked  to                                                               
Fairbanks because the original intent  of the bill was a regional                                                               
expansion. The  outlying communities  supported it and  the MatSu                                                               
Borough agreed to  the reduction because nobody  was very excited                                                               
about mega. They  just wanted the business out there.  We knew if                                                               
we tried  to go ahead with  a big project and  then several years                                                               
later came and asked for  staffing for 2,400 you'd rightfully say                                                               
that the bill  was passed with the understanding  that you'd find                                                               
efficiencies  in the  department  for the  extra  1,000 beds.  "I                                                               
wasn't  willing or  able  to do  that." We  believe  that we  can                                                               
comfortably staff a 1,530 bed facility.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:21:00 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER  SCHMIDT  said  he  hopes  this  results  in  better                                                               
communication. He agrees with Senator  McGuire's remark that it's                                                               
an  in-house fight.  A lot  of this  doesn't need  to be  at this                                                               
level. "We'd be  happy to sit down  and work a lot  of this stuff                                                               
out but we can't do it with  threats and we can't get bullied. We                                                               
have to  do it fair and  we have to  talk to each other  and mean                                                               
what we say," he said.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR THERRIAULT  commented that  this discussion points  out a                                                               
problem in the  Legislature as well. SB 65 passed  in an era when                                                               
budgets were  projected to be  tight going forward so  there were                                                               
restrictions put on  the costs. The comparison was  what it would                                                               
cost  to build  and house  people in  Alaska versus  the cost  of                                                               
continuing  to  ship them  out  of  state. Corrections  generally                                                               
doesn't  get a  lot  of attention,  but  it's a  constitutionally                                                               
obligated  governmental responsibility.  The capital  budget this                                                               
year was staggeringly  large but there was nothing  in the budget                                                               
this  year that  addresses the  needs you  mentioned 4,  5 and  6                                                               
years out. And there's nothing  on the drawing board. Legislators                                                               
need  to  refocus  their  attention   on  what  the  constitution                                                               
mandates  and pass  that information  on  to their  constituents.                                                               
It's not  necessarily what we'd like  to do, but it's  what we're                                                               
obligated to do, he said.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:23:51 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  STOLTZE  asked  if   he  had  an  opportunity  to                                                               
aggressively lobby for the $7  million for utility lines that the                                                               
Governor  vetoed from  the capital  budget. That  budget cut  was                                                               
very befuddling, he said. "Did  you have an arm wrestling contest                                                               
with Karen Rehfeld and lose?"                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER SCHMIDT replied the  project was viable before that.                                                               
He recalled  that the  borough lobbied  to have  that put  in the                                                               
budget. We  certainly wouldn't  stand in the  way, but  it didn't                                                               
fit into the plan, he said.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE STOLTZE said  he had the House  companion bill and                                                               
he's happy to be past that ugly time in legislative history.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:25:08 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  RAMRAS  said  he  wasn't  familiar  with  the  $7                                                               
million  that was  vetoed, but  he does  know that  twice he  put                                                               
$10,000 in  the budget for  a climbing  wall at the  40-plus year                                                               
old  Fairbanks Youth  Facility and  it  was cut  both times.  The                                                               
ideology behind it was to do  something to rescue young people in                                                               
the  facility  and  bring  something  fresh  into  an  antiquated                                                               
facility.  He doesn't  think  there is  support  coming from  the                                                               
current  administration and  he's frankly  not impressed  when he                                                               
has a commissioner come before  him and speak so disparagingly of                                                               
the people he is supposed to  supervise. In the private sector he                                                               
himself supervises  300 people and  he would never use  the words                                                               
"bullying   or   threatening"   in   a   public   setting.   It's                                                               
inappropriate language and hurtful to  morale to use that sort of                                                               
vernacular. "I  would suggest Commissioner  that you work  on the                                                               
language that you should use in  the future to work together with                                                               
a group  where there  are obvious  differences in  intensions and                                                               
frictions and  not enough resources  to go around." That  sort of                                                               
language is  incendiary and  counterproductive and  it's probably                                                               
part of the reason we're  sitting here today. "I would vigorously                                                               
encourage  you  to find  more  constructive  language to  use  in                                                               
articulating  the   relationship  between   you  and   this  very                                                               
impressive body of correctional officers," he said.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:30:20 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER SCHMIDT  responded, "I felt bullied  and that's what                                                               
I said,  but I  hear you.  And if  it at  all will  cause further                                                               
delays in our  communication, then it's not  productive. What I'm                                                               
about  is  getting  back  to  a  table. …  The  key  to  this  is                                                               
effective, polite, professional communication"                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  FRENCH   thanked  the  commissioner  and   said  the  next                                                               
presentation is from the state epidemiologist.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:31:28 PM                                                                                                                    
DOCTOR  JOE MCLAUGHLIN,  Acting Chief,  Section of  Epidemiology,                                                               
Division  of  Public  Health, Department  of  Health  and  Social                                                               
Services,   introduced  himself   and   delivered  a   PowerPoint                                                               
presentation   on  Methicillin-resistant   Staphylococcus  aureus                                                               
(MRSA).  He said  he would  start with  the epidemiology  of MRSA                                                               
beginning with the  background. He would go into  how to diagnose                                                               
and  treat   MRSA  infections  as  well   as  some  precautionary                                                               
measures. Next he would discuss MRSA in prisons.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Staphylococcus aureus is a bacterium  that is commonly carried on                                                               
the skin  or the nose of  healthy people. It is  the common cause                                                               
of minor skin infections. The  typical presentation is pimples or                                                               
boils. Oftentimes it  can be treated without  antibiotics, but it                                                               
can  also  cause  serious  infections   such  as  surgical  wound                                                               
infections, bloodstream infections and pneumonia.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MRSA  stands  for  Methicillin-resistant  Staphylococcus  aureus,                                                               
which means it's resistant to  the certain antibiotics. Those are                                                               
beta-lactam  antibiotics, which  include methicillin,  oxacillin,                                                               
penicillin, and amoxicillin.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  FRENCH  asked when  the  medical  community first  noticed                                                               
there were  staph strains that  couldn't be treated by  the beta-                                                               
lactam antibiotics.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
DR. MCLAUGHLIN  replied that  started in  the '70s;  a subsequent                                                               
slide would address that.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
DR. MCLAUGHLIN continued  to explain that about 25  percent to 30                                                               
percent  of  the  general  population in  the  United  States  is                                                               
colonized with  Staphylococcus aureus. Colonization  is typically                                                               
in the nares,  axilla, and groin and those  people are considered                                                               
to be carriers.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MRSA is  the form  of Staphylococcus  aureus that's  resistant to                                                               
antibiotics. In  2001 and  2002 about .8  percent of  the general                                                               
population was colonized  with MRSA. Two years  later 1.5 percent                                                               
of  the  population was  colonized  so  it's increasing  in  this                                                               
country. Staphylococcus aureus colonization  is a risk factor for                                                               
infection. About  80 percent of  infections are  endogenous. That                                                               
means that of  those people who are  infected with Staphylococcus                                                               
aureus, about 80 percent are carriers.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:35:49 PM                                                                                                                    
DR.  MCLAUGHLIN  highlighted some  of  the  consequences of  MRSA                                                               
colonization: it  leads to increased risk  of infection; hospital                                                               
stays  last about  10  days  longer; there's  a  2.5 fold  higher                                                               
mortality; and health care costs are increased.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
There  are   two  main  types  of   MRSA  infections:  healthcare                                                               
associated and community associated.  In a healthcare setting the                                                               
immunocompromised  patients   are  at   highest  risk   for  MRSA                                                               
infection.   The  most   common   manifestation  includes   wound                                                               
infections,  urinary  tract infections,  bloodstream  infections,                                                               
and  pneumonia. The  proportion of  staph aureus  infections that                                                               
were MRSA positive in intensive care  units in the U.S. went from                                                               
around 2 percent in 1974 to 64 percent in 2004.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Community acquired  MRSA occurs  in otherwise healthy  people who                                                               
haven't  been hospitalized  nor had  a medical  procedure in  the                                                               
last  year.  Approximately  12 percent  of  MRSA  infections  are                                                               
community  acquired.  The remainder  is  acquired  in a  hospital                                                               
setting.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  FRENCH said  when a  corrections officer  gets MRSA  it is                                                               
community associated.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
DR.  MCLAUGHLIN  replied most  people  who  are infected  in  the                                                               
prison  system have  community associated  MRSA.  Some cases  are                                                               
hospital  associated.  There  are  ways  to  test  and  therefore                                                               
determine  whether  the  strain   is  consistent  with  community                                                               
acquired or hospital acquired.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH asked if it's possible  to go further to say exactly                                                               
where the strain  came from - a particular school,  bathroom in a                                                               
bar, or prison.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
DR. MCLAUGHLIN  said when there's  a viral outbreak of  some sort                                                               
it's possible  to look at the  DNA of the strain  of the bacteria                                                               
that caused the outbreak and  identify that the particular strain                                                               
is  consistent  among  patients   who  are  associated  with  the                                                               
outbreak. The same applies for  MRSA. If there's a MRSA outbreak,                                                               
it's possible to  take cultures from clinical  specimens and look                                                               
at the DNA patterns of  the isolates to determine whether there's                                                               
one strain of MRSA or multiple strain.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:39:06 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR THERRIAULT  asked if  MRSA is an  umbrella term  for many                                                               
different bugs.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
DR. MCLAUGHLIN said that's correct.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR THERRIAULT  asked if it  would apply to  common childhood                                                               
infections such as impetigo and conjunctivitis.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
DR. MCLAUGHLIN  replied there  are many  different manifestations                                                               
of  MRSA including  impetigo, skin  rashes, cellulites,  pimples,                                                               
and  boils.  It  can  also be  internalized  causing  bloodstream                                                               
infections, infections of an organ, or pneumonia.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:39:54 PM                                                                                                                    
DR.  MCLAUGHLIN  said  about 12  million  outpatients  healthcare                                                               
visits are  estimated to occur  each year  in the U.S.  And about                                                               
292,000 hospitalizations are thought  to be associated with staph                                                               
aureus  infections each  year in  the U.S.  In 2005  about 94,000                                                               
people  were diagnosed  with invasive  MRSA. Invasive  means it's                                                               
gone from  a skin  infection to  colonizing. About  19,000 people                                                               
died  of invasive  MRSA; 86  percent  were healthcare  associated                                                               
MRSA  infections  and 14  percent  were  community acquired  MRSA                                                               
infections.  The annual  cost  is estimated  to  be between  $3.2                                                               
billion and $4.2 billion.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH asked how he accounts  for the fact that one in five                                                               
who get  invasive MRSA die,  and most are  healthcare associated.                                                               
Is it deeper in the system before it's caught?                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Dr. MCLAUGHLIN  said yes.  The vast  majority of  MRSA infections                                                               
seen in medical  facilities are skin infections.  They are benign                                                               
and  don't  require any  specific  antibiotic  treatment. Just  a                                                               
small  proportion of  those skin  infections  become an  invasive                                                               
disease -  colonization of the  lungs, for example. But  once the                                                               
infection  becomes invasive  there's  a  very high  case-fatality                                                               
rate.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:42:13 PM                                                                                                                    
Dr.  MCLAUGHLIN  said  most  states  don't  have  regulations  or                                                               
statutes mandating  the reporting  of MRSA  infections. Primarily                                                               
that's because the reporting is  a burden to healthcare providers                                                               
and lab personnel. The role  that public health officials have in                                                               
intervening in  MRSA incidents is  as unclear  as it is  with the                                                               
common  cold.  A  very  few states  require  reporting  of  every                                                               
laboratory confirmed case of MRSA  and some states are looking at                                                               
mandating  reporting of  MRSA infections  that  occur in  sterile                                                               
sites such as  blood and urine. Those are things  to look at down                                                               
the  road,  but  currently  Alaska  reporting  regulations  don't                                                               
require reporting MRSA  infections. Currently there are  56 or 57                                                               
reportable  infectious diseases  in Alaska.  Although MRSA  isn't                                                               
one  of  those, there  is  a  clause  in the  infectious  disease                                                               
reporting  regulations that  says  that an  unusual  number or  a                                                               
clustering of any infectious disease  is reportable. He said that                                                               
another common example of how  this might apply is the Norovirus.                                                               
That's  a very  common virus  that causes  frequent outbreaks  on                                                               
cruise ships.  That isn't reportable but  as soon as there  is an                                                               
indication of an outbreak, healthcare  providers are required, by                                                               
law,  to report  that to  public health.  The report  triggers an                                                               
outbreak investigation.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:44:28 PM                                                                                                                    
Dr.  MCLAUGHLIN   showed  slide   examples  of  staph   and  MRSA                                                               
infections.  They range  from pimples  to  boils and  cellulites,                                                               
which  is  a red  infected  skin  tissue.  It also  manifests  as                                                               
ulcers, impetigo, and drainage.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR THERRIAULT asked if the  pimples always progress into the                                                               
more obvious infections.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
DR.  MCLAUGHLIN  replied  they  usually don't,  but  if  they  do                                                               
progress into ulcers  that would be an increased  risk factor for                                                               
a bloodstream  infection. He indicated  a slide showing  the most                                                               
commonly seen infection  and said many people  report their first                                                               
symptoms feel and look like a spider bite.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Dr. MCLAUGHLIN  said people are  at increased risk  for community                                                               
acquired MRSA  if they  have: skin to  skin contact;  openings in                                                               
the skin such  as abrasions; contact with  contaminated items and                                                               
surfaces;  crowded living  conditions; and  poor hygiene.  People                                                               
who  have  been  identified  as   being  at  increased  risk  for                                                               
infection from  community acquired MRSA include:  Alaska Natives,                                                               
athletes,  children,   men  who  have  sex   with  men,  military                                                               
recruits, Native Americans, Pacific Islanders, and prisoners.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:46:41 PM                                                                                                                    
Dr. MCLAUGHLIN  discussed the diagnosis  of MRSA  skin infection.                                                               
First there's  the clinical diagnosis.  The health  care provider                                                               
makes  an  assessment  and  presumptive  clinical  diagnosis  and                                                               
decides  whether or  not to  culture the  lesion. The  Center for                                                               
Disease Control (CDC) recommends  culturing every lesion whenever                                                               
possible. The culture  is taken from the weeping wound  or from a                                                               
skin  biopsy. Antimicrobial  resistance  testing  is also  highly                                                               
recommended.  That  determines  whether  or  not  the  strain  is                                                               
sensitive or resistant to antibiotics.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Treatment involves the  application of warm or  hot compresses to                                                               
the  lesion.  Sometimes it  involves  an  incision to  drain  the                                                               
wound. This should only be  done by a healthcare provider because                                                               
it's  a risk  factor for  infection. Treatment  can also  include                                                               
antibiotics, but  it's important to  know the specific  strain of                                                               
the  bacteria  because the  use  of  a particular  antibiotic  is                                                               
guided by the susceptibility profile  of the organism. Oftentimes                                                               
antibiotics are unnecessary.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  FRENCH asked  what causes  the  boils to  go away  without                                                               
antibiotics.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DR. MCLAUGHLIN explained  that sometimes the body  fights off the                                                               
bacteria  and sometimes  warm  compresses  help. Antibiotics  are                                                               
indicated  if there's  a  large area  of  cellulites, a  systemic                                                               
illness  where the  patient  is febrile,  the  patient is  immune                                                               
compromised or has serious health  conditions, or the patient has                                                               
immune suppression.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:49:17 PM                                                                                                                    
DR.  MCLAUGHLIN  said  that mupirocin  is  an  antibiotic  that's                                                               
commonly   used  for   decolonization.  Occasionally   it's  been                                                               
effective in the  short term in individual patients  who are very                                                               
ill. But  the effectiveness of  interrupting transmission  in the                                                               
healthcare setting hasn't  been established and there  is no data                                                               
for   community  transmission.   Also  there's   been  increasing                                                               
resistance to  mupirocin so there's no  consensus recommendation.                                                               
If it  actually worked it  would be a  great way to  prevent MRSA                                                               
infections.  It  involves  applying  an ointment  in  the  nares,                                                               
axilla,  and  groin  to essentially  decolonize  someone  who  is                                                               
colonized, not infected, with the bacteria.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Dr. MCLAUGHLIN  said the prognosis  is very favorable  for people                                                               
who are  in generally good health  and have a mild  case of MRSA.                                                               
However, patients  may be carriers  for years and  recurrence may                                                               
be as  high as  40 percent in  certain populations.  Because this                                                               
isn't a  nationally notifiable condition,  there isn't  good rate                                                               
and incidence  data to guide  and inform the epidemiology  of the                                                               
disease. However  current thinking  is that  less than  1 percent                                                               
and up  to 7 percent of  people who have MRSA  infections develop                                                               
an invasive  disease. As previously stated,  invasive disease has                                                               
severe morbidity  and mortality. About  20 percent of  the people                                                               
with invasive MRSA die.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:51:28 PM                                                                                                                    
Dr. MCLAUGHLIN  said that  the number one  prevention is  to wash                                                               
your hands. Also,  keep cuts and scrapes clean  and covered until                                                               
healed; avoid  contact with other  people's wounds  and bandages;                                                               
avoid  sharing personal  items  such as  towels  and razors;  and                                                               
effectively diagnose  and treat to prevent  methicillin sensitive                                                               
staph aureus from becoming methicillin resistant staph aureus.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
DR.  MCLAUGHLIN said  that  in  prisons specifically,  implicated                                                               
risk  factors  include:  longer incarceration,  prior  antibiotic                                                               
use,  male gender,  washing clothes  by hand,  not using  soap to                                                               
wash,  other infections  or chronic  diseases,  self draining  of                                                               
boils,  sharing  towels and  razors,  and  tattooing. On  initial                                                               
presentation prisoners typically say they have spider bites.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:53:08 PM                                                                                                                    
Studies were done in prison  populations in Mississippi, New York                                                               
and Louisiana. Colonization rates range  from 0.8 percent to 16.6                                                               
percent.  There's little  data  on the  incidence  of disease.  A                                                               
Texas study  looking at about  300,000 inmates  incarcerated from                                                               
1999  to 2001  showed  an  incidence of  12  MRSA infections  per                                                               
100,000 person years.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:54:14 PM                                                                                                                    
The federal bureau of prisons  put out updated management of MRSA                                                               
infections guidelines in August  2005. It goes through screening,                                                               
reporting, treatment, infection  control, and outbreak management                                                               
recommendations.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  FRENCH asked  what  role  he and  the  division of  public                                                               
health would play in the MRSA screening that's planned.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
DR. MCLAUGHLIN replied the DOC  staff will do the surveillance in                                                               
the selected prisons  and public health will  help in calculating                                                               
and interpreting  the rates.  Those rates  will be  compared with                                                               
the published literature rates.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOLL  asked him to restate  the difference between                                                               
MRSA in  the nasal passage  and in a wound  on the hands  and how                                                               
that relates to showers, steam, and lower water temperatures.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
DR. MCLAUGHLIN  explained that  MRSA can infect  any area  of the                                                               
skin. About  30 percent  of the  general population  is colonized                                                               
with staph  aureus, and  about 1.5 percent  of the  population is                                                               
colonized  with  MRSA -  usually  in  the nose.  Colonization  is                                                               
different than infection,  but if there's a scratch  in the nasal                                                               
mucosa that can  introduce the bacteria deeper into  the skin and                                                               
cause  a local  skin  infection. It  may go  deeper  and cause  a                                                               
bloodstream infection, pneumonia, or  infection of other areas of                                                               
the body.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI  asked what would be  considered an outbreak                                                               
in a prison population of 3,600.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
DR.  MCLAUGHLIN  replied  we  don't  have a  good  grip  on  that                                                               
nationally.  The  division  of   public  health  asks  healthcare                                                               
providers to  report anything that  seems to be unusual  and they                                                               
will determine whether  an investigation is warranted.  If it is,                                                               
an outbreak  investigation will be conducted.  Influenza provides                                                               
a good corollary.  Most of the time  seasonal influenza outbreaks                                                               
aren't  investigated, but  there are  focal pockets  of influenza                                                               
where  the  incidence rate  is  high  enough to  warrant  further                                                               
investigation.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:59:15 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE RAMRAS highlighted that 100  men are housed in the                                                               
Fairbanks correctional facility gymnasium  that has 2 toilets and                                                               
probably the same  number of sinks. He asked  about sanitation in                                                               
that sort of environment.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
DR. MCLAUGHLIN  replied epidemiologically it's  been demonstrated                                                               
that  crowding  is  a  risk  factor  for  MRSA  colonization  and                                                               
infection.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  RAMRAS remarked  that he  was impressed  with the                                                               
cleanliness  of the  laundry facility  in Fairbanks,  but he  has                                                               
questions about  the plastic boats  they saw at the  beginning of                                                               
the tour.  He asked if  they're sanitized  and it they  aren't if                                                               
they  could be  a breeding  ground for  MRSA or  other infectious                                                               
diseases.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
DR. MCLAUGHLIN acknowledged that he  isn't sure he knows what the                                                               
boats  are, but  objects that  people routinely  come in  contact                                                               
with  are  known  risk factors  for  transmission.  Toilet  seats                                                               
should  be sanitized  frequently. The  Federal Bureau  of Prisons                                                               
document on  the management of MRSA  infections provides specific                                                               
and  detailed  recommendations   for  sanitizing.  Certainly  any                                                               
fomite should  be sanitized frequently  with a  detergent. Sheets                                                               
and other  things should be washed  in water that is  between 120                                                               
and 140 degrees Fahrenheit.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAMRAS  asked if  someone within the  system could                                                               
talk about  what effort  is made to  sanitize the  sleeping units                                                               
that are hard plastic or a mat.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:03:03 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR FRENCH suggested the  commissioner provide that information                                                               
during wrap up at the end of the day.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  THERRIAULT   asked  if  there's  increased   risk  in  a                                                               
restaurant on a busy Friday  night, in a multiplex movie theater,                                                               
or in a daycare.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
DR.  MCLAUGHLIN said  the majority  of the  epidemiologic studies                                                               
that look at  crowding as a risk factor for  illness have focused                                                               
on  living  in the  same  quarters.  Anytime the  environment  is                                                               
crowded  there's  increased  risk   that  the  bacteria  will  be                                                               
transmitted  through  person-to-person  contact or  contact  with                                                               
inanimate objects that are contaminated.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH commented that it  sounds as though our mothers were                                                               
right again; you need to wash your hands.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI noted  that people who work  in prisons were                                                               
not on the  list of individuals who are more  likely to get MRSA.                                                               
He asked if he would add that group to the list.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
DR.  MCLAUGHLIN said  a review  article was  published just  last                                                               
year that suggested  that prison employees might  be at increased                                                               
risk for infection. He offered to provide a copy of the article.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH  asked him  to send  a copy to  his office  and he'd                                                               
make sure it was circulated.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
At ease from 3:05:19 PM to 3:27:36 PM.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH said  that Mr. Bodick from the Department  of Law is                                                               
up next.  He's here  to because issues  such as  overcrowding and                                                               
disease  raise the  specter  of litigation.  He's  been with  the                                                               
department for some time and  he'll discuss the Cleary litigation                                                               
and its settlement.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
JOHN  BODICK,  Assistant  Attorney  General,  Criminal  Division,                                                               
Department of  Law, said he  represented DOC for about  20 years.                                                               
He's been asked  to explain the Cleary agreement,  where the case                                                               
is now  and where it  came from. He  became involved in  1995 but                                                               
the  case  started  in 1981  due  to  perceived  unconstitutional                                                               
conditions  in the  Alaska prisons.  In  1984 the  state won  the                                                               
trial on  all but some minor  issues. The judge found  the Alaska                                                               
prison  system  to be  safe,  humane  and not  unconstitutionally                                                               
overcrowded. Despite  that finding, the judge  imposed population                                                               
caps thinking  that it was  likely there would be  overcrowded at                                                               
some  time in  the future.  Both sides  appealed and  rather that                                                               
pursuing  the  appellate  process  negotiations  took  place  and                                                               
resulted in a final settlement  agreement and order. He said part                                                               
of it  came from  the State's  belief that  it would  give better                                                               
caps from the plaintiffs than from  the judge. The belief at that                                                               
time  was that  it could  be used  to secure  financing from  the                                                               
Legislature.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:29:20 PM                                                                                                                    
The  State worked  under that  agreement for  about 10  years and                                                               
achieved substantial  compliance with  the agreement. In  1997 he                                                               
took  over the  case fulltime  and  in 2001  Judge Hunt  released                                                               
class counsel  and ended court  oversight. Since that  time there                                                               
has been no court oversight and  there's been no attorney for the                                                               
plaintiffs - just himself and the open case.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BODICK  said  that  in   1999  the  Legislature  enacted  AS                                                               
9.19.200, which is the "Alaska  Prison Litigation Reform Act." He                                                               
noted that copies  were circulated to members.  That Act prevents                                                               
the court  from enforcing consent  decrees, like Cleary,  or from                                                               
imposing any  prospective relief, such as  an injunction ordering                                                               
the  Department  of  Corrections  to  do  something  in  prisoner                                                               
litigation.  The court  can still  impose injunctions  if certain                                                               
findings  are  made.  The  most  important  is  a  finding  of  a                                                               
violation of a  state or federal right. That comes  from state or                                                               
federal constitutions or statutes.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
The court must  also find that any relief must  be drawn narrowly                                                               
to  remedy  a  specific  violation.  And it  must  be  the  least                                                               
intrusive means to correct the  specific violation. Class relief,                                                               
such as  the Cleary  class consent decree,  is only  available if                                                               
the  violation  of  rights  applies  to  the  entire  class.  For                                                               
example,  if  there was  a  deficiency  in  the food  service  in                                                               
Fairbanks, a consent  decree couldn't be issued  that would apply                                                               
to Spring  Creek. It would  be limited to the  specific Fairbanks                                                               
population and area.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:31:30 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR FRENCH recognized that Representative  Buch was present and                                                               
had been much earlier in the day.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR THERRIAULT commented  that he is pleased to  hear him say                                                               
that the State won most of  the issues in the Cleary case because                                                               
many people  mistakenly concluded  that the  State system  was so                                                               
mismanaged  that the  Court had  to take  over operations  of the                                                               
corrections  facilities.  He  asked  if  any  of  the  things  he                                                               
mentioned would have  been triggered if this law had  been on the                                                               
books at that time.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. BODICK replied he wasn't involved  in the case in the '80s so                                                               
he isn't sure  what the conditions were, but the  short answer is                                                               
that it wouldn't  happen today. First there  weren't any findings                                                               
of unconstitutionality and second there's  a provision in the Act                                                               
that  allows the  State to  enter into  a consent  decree without                                                               
these  findings. That's  limited to  two years.  For the  consent                                                               
decree or  prospective relief  to continue  after that  time, the                                                               
court must make  a finding of unconstitutionality as  well as the                                                               
other findings in Section (a) of  the Act. He said that it wisely                                                               
allowed the State  to settle cases, but it limited  the length of                                                               
time that the Court could control operations of DOC.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:33:30 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. BODICK  continued to  explain that the  statute was  in place                                                               
and there were  provisions that allowed for the State  to move to                                                               
terminate the consent decree and  the prospective relief. He said                                                               
he filed a  motion to that effect in 2000.  The prisoners claimed                                                               
to  counsel that  the statute  was unconstitutional.  The State's                                                               
claim that  it was constitutional  prevailed. Judge  Anders ruled                                                               
that the  Court could  no longer  enter prospective  relief under                                                               
the consent decree,  but that the final order didn't  end. So the                                                               
court can  only enforce the final  order if findings are  made of                                                               
unconstitutionality and the least obtrusive  means. But, he said,                                                               
the court can  always make those findings; a  prisoner can always                                                               
sue for  unconstitutional conditions  irrespective of  the Cleary                                                               
settlement agreement. "Really what that's  done is taken the legs                                                               
out  from  under  Cleary."  It  still  exists  but  it  can't  be                                                               
enforced, he said.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  FRENCH said  that's  a key  point. Page  7  of the  Cleary                                                               
settlement talks  about cell and dayroom  size. Legislators today                                                               
saw  examples of  3  prisoners to  a cell  and  Cleary says  that                                                               
future  facilities may  not  provide for  housing  of inmates  in                                                               
dormitories. He asked  if that applies to the  gymnasium that has                                                               
bunks in it or if he'd argue that AS 09.19.200 vitiates that.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. BODICK  replied he would  argue that  to make that  claim the                                                               
prisoners  would have  to  show that  the gym  that's  used as  a                                                               
dormitory  is unconstitutional  or  in violation  of  a state  or                                                               
federal right or constitution.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  FRENCH said  it's  not whether  it  violates Cleary;  it's                                                               
whether it violates the constitution.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BODICK said  that's correct;  that  claim could  be made  in                                                               
state or  federal court without  Cleary by filing a  civil rights                                                               
action.  Cleary  is  essentially  an  open  case  that  prisoners                                                               
occasionally  file lawsuits  in  to enforce  the consent  decree.                                                               
When  suit is  filed he  responds under  the PLRA  [Prison Reform                                                               
Litigation Act] and the Court throws out the complaint, he said.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH questioned  how overcrowded it would have  to get to                                                               
rise to a  constitutional violation as opposed to  a violation of                                                               
Cleary.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. BODICK explained  that an analysis of  overcrowding under the                                                               
constitution  looks at  the totality  of the  circumstances. Cell                                                               
size, dayroom  size, how often  prisoners are out of  their cell,                                                               
recreational  opportunities,  food  service,  medical,  clothing,                                                               
change of  bedding, staffing, incidence of  violence and assaults                                                               
would all be  looked at to determine whether or  not a particular                                                               
facility was constitutionally overcrowded.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  FRENCH   asked  if  prisoners   have  brought   claims  of                                                               
unconstitutional overcrowding since the Cleary settlement.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BODICK said  no; there  have been  no claims  asserted since                                                               
Cleary.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:37:18 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI  observed  that if  the  Cleary  settlement                                                               
agreement were  in effect today,  the State would probably  be in                                                               
violation  of a  number of  parts of  it; AS  09.19.200 basically                                                               
renders the Cleary settlement decision unenforceable.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. BODICK  agreed. He  said that  over the  last few  years he's                                                               
dealt  with the  settlement agreement  a lot  and his  opinion is                                                               
that many of  the provisions are above  the constitutional floor.                                                               
He  advises DOC  to use  national  standards for  cell size,  for                                                               
example, as opposed to Cleary.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:38:13 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  FRENCH,  noting  that  MRSA is  a  new  development  since                                                               
Cleary, asked  what a prisoner's  disease claim about  MRSA might                                                               
add to the mix.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. BODICK  explained that a prisoner  can sue about MRSA  in two                                                               
ways. First they  would allege that they  weren't provided enough                                                               
medical care  under the constitution.  To do that they'd  have to                                                               
show  the  State is  deliberately  indifferent  to their  serious                                                               
medical needs. He's  heard that there are plans in  place to take                                                               
care  of MRSA  and  "I doesn't  think we're  even  close to  that                                                               
standard," he said. The other way  for a prisoner to sue would be                                                               
to  claim negligence;  they received  negligent medical  care. In                                                               
the few reported MRSA cases  that he's seen, appropriate care has                                                               
been given  immediately. In  the cases he's  analyzed it  was the                                                               
prisoner who  failed to keep their  wound clean or tend  to after                                                               
care.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:39:40 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE STOLTZE  asked how many  cases from the  Office of                                                               
the Ombudsman end up in his shop each year.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BODICK replied  they don't  end  up in  his shop  but he  is                                                               
consulted. The  statute says  the ombudsman  can not  provide the                                                               
information they get in their  investigation to litigants so that                                                               
cuts off the lawsuit angle. Some  years the ombudsman seems to be                                                               
on top of  the department and then  they seem to forget  it for a                                                               
few years. In  the last year or so there  have been more requests                                                               
than usual, but it's not excessive.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:40:52 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  FRENCH recognized  that Representative  Mike Chenault  had                                                               
joined the hearing.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  STOLTZE  asked if  the  issue  of officer  safety                                                               
entered  in  to the  Cleary  litigation  because that's  a  major                                                               
concern for him.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. BODICK replied  not to his knowledge; Cleary  was mostly from                                                               
the prisoner perspective.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH  told the committee that  former Commissioner Antrim                                                               
wasn't  able  to attend  because  of  a scheduling  conflict.  He                                                               
solicited closing comments.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:42:26 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  DOLL  said she'd  like  more  information on  how                                                               
prisoner MRSA,  HIV and other  outbreaks are tracked  and treated                                                               
and what happens when the person is released into the community.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:43:54 PM                                                                                                                    
SAM  EDWARDS,  Deputy  Commissioner, Department  of  Corrections,                                                               
explained that  the medical file follows  the prisoner regardless                                                               
of  the  length   of  their  sentence  and  as   they  move  from                                                               
institution to institution. Bed space  demands impact how often a                                                               
prisoner is  moved, but generally  they stay close to  where they                                                               
were arrested.  Each prisoner  is assessed  in terms  of programs                                                               
that  are needed  and  available. Substance  abuse  is a  primary                                                               
issue  among inmates  and currently  there are  three residential                                                               
substance abuse  programs - one  for women at  Highland Mountain,                                                               
one  for men  at  Wildwood in  Kenai,  and the  third  is in  the                                                               
Arizona prison.  Odds are  that someone  with a  10-year sentence                                                               
who has been  adjudicated and has a substance  abuse problem will                                                               
go to Arizona following their stay  at the first facility. At the                                                               
end  of his  term,  if  his classification  is  such  that he  is                                                               
eligible to  go into  the community on  furlough or  into another                                                               
community  treatment  program,  that  would be  his  third  stop.                                                               
"Ideally there would be three stops for that person," he said.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:46:17 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  DOLL  said  Dr. Luban,  the  corrections  medical                                                               
officer,  indicated  that  records   aren't  kept  and  that  the                                                               
computers aren't set up to handle that data.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. EDWARDS clarified  that Dr. Luban was  probably talking about                                                               
the fact  that there  is no broad  electronic tracking  system so                                                               
it's  not  possible  to  look   at  how  many  prisoners  in  the                                                               
department had incidents  of MRSA or any  other disease. However,                                                               
individual  medical files  are kept  up to  date and  they travel                                                               
with the person wherever they go.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DOLL surmised  that work  could be  done in  that                                                               
area.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. EDWARDS said  we wouldn't argue with  that. Electronic record                                                               
keeping and  retrieval was  a central issue  at the  recent crime                                                               
summit, he added.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH  said he's  been asked  what would  come out  of the                                                               
hearing today, and his intention  is to analyze what was learned.                                                               
Most of  what has  been seen and  learned will  probably manifest                                                               
itself in  the budget next year.  There will be greater  focus on                                                               
rehabilitation,  the growth  in  the prison  population, and  the                                                               
number of  COs that  are available to  manage the  population. He                                                               
noted that  some money is in  the capital budget this  year to do                                                               
an   evidence-based  study   on  which   rehabilitation  programs                                                               
actually work.  It gets  legislators' attention  to hear  that it                                                               
can cost $500,000 to fill  one post in one correctional facility.                                                               
He's  sorry Representative  Holmes isn't  here today  because her                                                               
three strikes  assault bill  helped drive home  to many  the huge                                                               
cost  of incarcerating  individuals for  long periods.  That will                                                               
have a  beneficial effect  going forward  because the  more focus                                                               
there is  on keeping  bad guys  in jail  and getting  people with                                                               
substance abuse problems out, the  more the strains on the system                                                               
will be relieved , he said.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:48:57 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL  observed that as he's  watched the budget                                                               
over the years, one thing they  haven't gotten a handle on is how                                                               
to deal  with people  who have  mental health  issues who  do bad                                                               
things. Perhaps we could work on that component, he said.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  FRENCH  said   he's  glad  he  brought   that  up  because                                                               
legislators  learned today  that  DOC is  the  number one  health                                                               
services provider in the state.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR THERRIAULT  remarked that the Budget  and Audit Committee                                                               
will  use the  information coming  out  of this  hearing when  it                                                               
revisits the audit request.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAMRAS said apart from  the funds for the climbing                                                               
wall, which  he will submit a  third time, he wants  to highlight                                                               
recidivism. It's  the worst demon we  face and we need  to get to                                                               
young  people   before  they  become   a  burden  on   the  adult                                                               
correctional system. Last  week he spoke at  the GED commencement                                                               
in  Fairbanks  and he  doesn't  want  to  overlook the  value  of                                                               
getting folks their GEDs while they're in prison.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DOLL added  for  the record  that village  safety                                                               
officers  and  crime coming  in  from  the villages  hasn't  been                                                               
discussed. We need to connect all  the dots on this kind of thing                                                               
so that we look at things holistically, she said.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH adjourned the hearing at 3:53:49 PM.                                                                             

Document Name Date/Time Subjects